So I have a question . . .

Is replying to a message on USENET supported fully by MultiMail + QWKE?
I am having an issue where if I reply to someone's post on USENET
through the BBS via MultiMail and QWKE packets, that it breaks the
thread in the USENET group. Is that supposed to happen?

Here is a screenshot showing what I mean. The area highlighted in green
should be how it works, the red area shows how it is broken.

http://lifeseven.com/screenshots/Selection_138.png


... I spilled spot remover on my dog. He's gone now.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

On 28 Apr 2021 at 02:29p, Elf pondered and said...

Is replying to a message on USENET supported fully by MultiMail + QWKE?
I am having an issue where if I reply to someone's post on USENET
through the BBS via MultiMail and QWKE packets, that it breaks the
thread in the USENET group. Is that supposed to happen?

How are you getting your Usenet content? Is it the gated feed via 21:1/10 or ?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

On 28 Apr 2021 at 02:29p, Elf pondered and said...

Is replying to a message on USENET supported fully by MultiMail + QWKE?
I am having an issue where if I reply to someone's post on USENET
through the BBS via MultiMail and QWKE packets, that it breaks the
thread in the USENET group. Is that supposed to happen?

How are you getting your Usenet content? Is it the gated feed via
21:1/10 or ?

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

That is all I know.

... Everyone is entitled to my opinion without charge.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

On 28 Apr 2021 at 02:29p, Elf pondered and said...

Is replying to a message on USENET supported fully by MultiMail + QWK I am having an issue where if I reply to someone's post on USENET through the BBS via MultiMail and QWKE packets, that it breaks the thread in the USENET group. Is that supposed to happen?

How are you getting your Usenet content? Is it the gated feed via 21:1/10 or ?

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

That is all I know.

... Everyone is entitled to my opinion without charge.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Hi guys, is there anything i need to do on my site to setup the QWKE packages?

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

On 29 Apr 2021 at 04:43p, Elf pondered and said...

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit wibbly with the
gateway software also as if the message is passing from FTN <> Usenet
Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can at times seem to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at all this. My hunch is it's the QWK
thing more so than the gateway. I could be wrong.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

On 29 Apr 2021 at 04:43p, Elf pondered and said...

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit wibbly with the gateway software also as if the message is passing from FTN <> Usenet Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can at times seem
to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at all this. My
hunch is it's the QWK thing more so than the gateway. I could be wrong.

I missed who posted the original inquiry, but my experience with QWK and newsgroups is that the threading being messed up seemed to correlate with messages where the subject exceeded the characters allowed by QWK. So, if
I responded to a message with a long subject line, and QWK truncated it, it might not always thread right. At least, that is what the people who complained to me about my posts thought was going on. :)


... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
--- MultiMail
* Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

On 29 Apr 2021 at 04:43p, Elf pondered and said...

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit wibbly with the gateway software also as if the message is passing from FTN <> Usenet Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can at times seem
to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at all this. My
hunch is it's the QWK thing more so than the gateway. I could be wrong.

I'll have to test again, but I am pretty sure I tested by sending a
reply while on the BBS, bypassing any offline QWK stuff altogether. And
it still failed.

I'll test again to confirm. Seems if you can't reply to USENET messages
from a BBS without messing up everyone's thread, then kind of useless
to have USENET access. ????

We'll see...

... Some assembly required.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Blue White wrote to Avon <=-

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

I missed who posted the original inquiry, but my experience with QWK
and newsgroups is that the threading being messed up seemed to
correlate with messages where the subject exceeded the characters
allowed by QWK. So, if I responded to a message with a long subject
line, and QWK truncated it, it might not always thread right. At
least, that is what the people who complained to me about my posts
thought was going on. :)

I'm using the QWKE standard which allows for longer subject lines, but
that is not the problem because I tested with a subject line of "Test"
and it still broke the thread. Must have something to do with message
IDs of some sort. But why allow for USENET access if you can't post
replies. Hmm...

... That concept looks like a chicken in a windstorm.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Re: Re: Replying to messages on USENET from BBS
By: Elf to Blue White on Sat May 01 2021 10:19 pm

I'm using the QWKE standard which allows for longer subject lines, but that is not the problem because I tested with a subject line of "Test" and it still broke the thread. Must have something to do with message
IDs of some sort. But why allow for USENET access if you can't post replies. Hmm...

I wonder if the issue is caused by a missing REPLYID. Your message (that I am replying too) has a MSGID but not a REPLYID. That may have an impact.

When using Synchronet with QWK and you reply to a message there is both a MSGID and REPLYID, that might make a difference.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Coffeeholic - You can't even remember your second cup.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Re: Re: Replying to messages on USENET from BBS
By: Blue White to Avon on Sat May 01 2021 09:25 am

I missed who posted the original inquiry, but my experience with QWK and newsgroups is that the threading being messed up seemed to correlate with messages where the subject exceeded the characters allowed by QWK.

QWKE extends the maximum subject length of QWK messages (by using a kludge line in the message text). And there are other QWK extensions for message-IDs to support proper dupe detection and thread-linkage:
http://wiki.synchro.net/ref:qwk
--
digital man

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #58:
PET = Personal Electronic Transactor (Commodore computer)
Norco, CA WX: 55.1�F, 86.0% humidity, 0 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Elf wrote to Blue White <=-

I'm using the QWKE standard which allows for longer subject lines, but that is not the problem because I tested with a subject line of "Test"
and it still broke the thread. Must have something to do with message
IDs of some sort. But why allow for USENET access if you can't post replies. Hmm...

I am using bluewave on this board, which also allows for the longer
subjects. I suspect that some BBS software was created with usenet support
in mind, and some are not, which could also cause problems especially in bridged echos.

When I used to have a usenet provider, before my isp dropped usenet, it
seemed like I had fewer problems in the newsgroups I was gating to my synchronet board than I did in the bridged ftn echos I was posting in (that
are gated on other systems).


... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
--- MultiMail
* Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)

Elf wrote (2021-05-01):

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies
and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit
wibbly with the gateway software also as if the message is passing
from FTN <> Usenet Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can
at times seem to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at
all this. My hunch is it's the QWK thing more so than the gateway.
I could be wrong.

I'll have to test again, but I am pretty sure I tested by sending a
reply while on the BBS, bypassing any offline QWK stuff altogether. And
it still failed.

I'll test again to confirm. Seems if you can't reply to USENET messages from a BBS without messing up everyone's thread, then kind of useless
to have USENET access. ????

Which NNTP<->FTN gateway is used? There was a standard from the last millenium called Gatebau '94 / '97. Unfortunately many gateway programs don't care about it at all and just do something. And some are bonkers and make a mess of every single message.

I think the best way to read Usenet is to get the messages in their original RFC/News (Internet Mail) format (or use a proper NNTP and QWK gateway). IIRC Multimail does support SOUP, which is like QWK, but for RFC Internet Mail. Has anyone tried it?

Btw, what is the problem with Multimail and REPLY kludges? So many broken reply chains. Is it Mystic's QWK, Multimail, something different?

---
* Origin: . (21:3/102)

Oli wrote to Elf <=-

Btw, what is the problem with Multimail and REPLY kludges? So many
broken reply chains. Is it Mystic's QWK, Multimail, something
different?

Mystic's QWK system doesn't produce a REPYID that I have seen. If your
message linking relies on that then it could fail.

I'm not really sure of that, it's just an observation on my part.

Mystic does produce both a MSGID and REPLYID if you are posting from the
BBS, it's the QWK system that doesn't.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... The computer made me do it!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit wibbl with the gateway software also as if the message is passing from FTN Usenet Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can at times seem to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at all this. My hunch is it's the QWK thing more so than the gateway. I could be wron

I'll have to test again, but I am pretty sure I tested by sending a
reply while on the BBS, bypassing any offline QWK stuff altogether. And it still failed.

I'll test again to confirm. Seems if you can't reply to USENET messages from a BBS without messing up everyone's thread, then kind of useless
to have USENET access. ????

We'll see...

... Some assembly required.

hi. let me know if there is any config i need to do on hive32 to get things setup properly....

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

So I have a question . . .

Is replying to a message on USENET supported fully by MultiMail + QWKE?
I am having an issue where if I reply to someone's post on USENET
through the BBS via MultiMail and QWKE packets, that it breaks the
thread in the USENET group. Is that supposed to happen?

Here is a screenshot showing what I mean. The area highlighted in green
should be how it works, the red area shows how it is broken.

http://lifeseven.com/screenshots/Selection_138.png


... I spilled spot remover on my dog. He's gone now.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

On 28 Apr 2021 at 02:29p, Elf pondered and said...

Is replying to a message on USENET supported fully by MultiMail + QWKE?
I am having an issue where if I reply to someone's post on USENET
through the BBS via MultiMail and QWKE packets, that it breaks the
thread in the USENET group. Is that supposed to happen?

How are you getting your Usenet content? Is it the gated feed via 21:1/10 or ?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

On 28 Apr 2021 at 02:29p, Elf pondered and said...

Is replying to a message on USENET supported fully by MultiMail + QWKE?
I am having an issue where if I reply to someone's post on USENET
through the BBS via MultiMail and QWKE packets, that it breaks the
thread in the USENET group. Is that supposed to happen?

How are you getting your Usenet content? Is it the gated feed via
21:1/10 or ?

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

That is all I know.

... Everyone is entitled to my opinion without charge.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

On 28 Apr 2021 at 02:29p, Elf pondered and said...

Is replying to a message on USENET supported fully by MultiMail + QWK I am having an issue where if I reply to someone's post on USENET through the BBS via MultiMail and QWKE packets, that it breaks the thread in the USENET group. Is that supposed to happen?

How are you getting your Usenet content? Is it the gated feed via 21:1/10 or ?

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

That is all I know.

... Everyone is entitled to my opinion without charge.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Hi guys, is there anything i need to do on my site to setup the QWKE packages?

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

On 29 Apr 2021 at 04:43p, Elf pondered and said...

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit wibbly with the
gateway software also as if the message is passing from FTN <> Usenet
Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can at times seem to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at all this. My hunch is it's the QWK
thing more so than the gateway. I could be wrong.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

On 29 Apr 2021 at 04:43p, Elf pondered and said...

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit wibbly with the gateway software also as if the message is passing from FTN <> Usenet Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can at times seem
to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at all this. My
hunch is it's the QWK thing more so than the gateway. I could be wrong.

I missed who posted the original inquiry, but my experience with QWK and newsgroups is that the threading being messed up seemed to correlate with messages where the subject exceeded the characters allowed by QWK. So, if
I responded to a message with a long subject line, and QWK truncated it, it might not always thread right. At least, that is what the people who complained to me about my posts thought was going on. :)


... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
--- MultiMail
* Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

On 29 Apr 2021 at 04:43p, Elf pondered and said...

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit wibbly with the gateway software also as if the message is passing from FTN <> Usenet Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can at times seem
to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at all this. My
hunch is it's the QWK thing more so than the gateway. I could be wrong.

I'll have to test again, but I am pretty sure I tested by sending a
reply while on the BBS, bypassing any offline QWK stuff altogether. And
it still failed.

I'll test again to confirm. Seems if you can't reply to USENET messages
from a BBS without messing up everyone's thread, then kind of useless
to have USENET access. ????

We'll see...

... Some assembly required.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Blue White wrote to Avon <=-

Avon wrote to Elf <=-

I missed who posted the original inquiry, but my experience with QWK
and newsgroups is that the threading being messed up seemed to
correlate with messages where the subject exceeded the characters
allowed by QWK. So, if I responded to a message with a long subject
line, and QWK truncated it, it might not always thread right. At
least, that is what the people who complained to me about my posts
thought was going on. :)

I'm using the QWKE standard which allows for longer subject lines, but
that is not the problem because I tested with a subject line of "Test"
and it still broke the thread. Must have something to do with message
IDs of some sort. But why allow for USENET access if you can't post
replies. Hmm...

... That concept looks like a chicken in a windstorm.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)

Re: Re: Replying to messages on USENET from BBS
By: Elf to Blue White on Sat May 01 2021 10:19 pm

I'm using the QWKE standard which allows for longer subject lines, but that is not the problem because I tested with a subject line of "Test" and it still broke the thread. Must have something to do with message
IDs of some sort. But why allow for USENET access if you can't post replies. Hmm...

I wonder if the issue is caused by a missing REPLYID. Your message (that I am replying too) has a MSGID but not a REPLYID. That may have an impact.

When using Synchronet with QWK and you reply to a message there is both a MSGID and REPLYID, that might make a difference.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Coffeeholic - You can't even remember your second cup.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Re: Re: Replying to messages on USENET from BBS
By: Blue White to Avon on Sat May 01 2021 09:25 am

I missed who posted the original inquiry, but my experience with QWK and newsgroups is that the threading being messed up seemed to correlate with messages where the subject exceeded the characters allowed by QWK.

QWKE extends the maximum subject length of QWK messages (by using a kludge line in the message text). And there are other QWK extensions for message-IDs to support proper dupe detection and thread-linkage:
http://wiki.synchro.net/ref:qwk
--
digital man

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #58:
PET = Personal Electronic Transactor (Commodore computer)
Norco, CA WX: 55.1�F, 86.0% humidity, 0 mph ENE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)

Elf wrote to Blue White <=-

I'm using the QWKE standard which allows for longer subject lines, but that is not the problem because I tested with a subject line of "Test"
and it still broke the thread. Must have something to do with message
IDs of some sort. But why allow for USENET access if you can't post replies. Hmm...

I am using bluewave on this board, which also allows for the longer
subjects. I suspect that some BBS software was created with usenet support
in mind, and some are not, which could also cause problems especially in bridged echos.

When I used to have a usenet provider, before my isp dropped usenet, it
seemed like I had fewer problems in the newsgroups I was gating to my synchronet board than I did in the bridged ftn echos I was posting in (that
are gated on other systems).


... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
--- MultiMail
* Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)

Elf wrote (2021-05-01):

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then
uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies
and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit
wibbly with the gateway software also as if the message is passing
from FTN <> Usenet Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can
at times seem to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at
all this. My hunch is it's the QWK thing more so than the gateway.
I could be wrong.

I'll have to test again, but I am pretty sure I tested by sending a
reply while on the BBS, bypassing any offline QWK stuff altogether. And
it still failed.

I'll test again to confirm. Seems if you can't reply to USENET messages from a BBS without messing up everyone's thread, then kind of useless
to have USENET access. ????

Which NNTP<->FTN gateway is used? There was a standard from the last millenium called Gatebau '94 / '97. Unfortunately many gateway programs don't care about it at all and just do something. And some are bonkers and make a mess of every single message.

I think the best way to read Usenet is to get the messages in their original RFC/News (Internet Mail) format (or use a proper NNTP and QWK gateway). IIRC Multimail does support SOUP, which is like QWK, but for RFC Internet Mail. Has anyone tried it?

Btw, what is the problem with Multimail and REPLY kludges? So many broken reply chains. Is it Mystic's QWK, Multimail, something different?

---
* Origin: . (21:3/102)

Oli wrote to Elf <=-

Btw, what is the problem with Multimail and REPLY kludges? So many
broken reply chains. Is it Mystic's QWK, Multimail, something
different?

Mystic's QWK system doesn't produce a REPYID that I have seen. If your
message linking relies on that then it could fail.

I'm not really sure of that, it's just an observation on my part.

Mystic does produce both a MSGID and REPLYID if you are posting from the
BBS, it's the QWK system that doesn't.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... The computer made me do it!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Just via HIVE32 BBS, downloading QWKE packets and replying then uploading the REP packet. Using MultiMail 0.52 for Linux.

Hmm OK. I'm not sure about QWK and how it handles message replies and message ID numbers etc. But I do know that things can get a bit wibbl with the gateway software also as if the message is passing from FTN Usenet Newsgroup the message ID used by the gateway can at times seem to be an issue also. It's been ages since I looked at all this. My hunch is it's the QWK thing more so than the gateway. I could be wron

I'll have to test again, but I am pretty sure I tested by sending a
reply while on the BBS, bypassing any offline QWK stuff altogether. And it still failed.

I'll test again to confirm. Seems if you can't reply to USENET messages from a BBS without messing up everyone's thread, then kind of useless
to have USENET access. ????

We'll see...

... Some assembly required.

hi. let me know if there is any config i need to do on hive32 to get things setup properly....

Thanks
- Gamecube Buddy

telnet --<{bbs.hive32.com:23333}>--

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Hive32 (21:4/129)