On a side note, this is what I consider a serious problem with schooling and rote learning. We learn by practical application, because that is
how things then make sense.

Yeah. Difference between learning for the test, and learning in such a way that sticks.

Also the difference between teaching someone to use a computer by having them write down every step, and somehow imparting the logic and thought process.

But it's _really_ hard to teach things through the practical application way, oftentimes, and generally fairly hard to test it, too.

Probably also takes longer.

But on the job, being able to logically think through what something is doing, and how to approach the problem is _super_ useful.

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* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

That reminds me of a time in college when we were studying networking.
We were being taught the OSI network layers and the teacher gave us the phrase to help remember them all: "Please Do Not Throw Sausage Pizza Away"

Application
Presentation
Session
Transport
Network
Data Link
Physical

Similar to you, the phrase is what stuck in my head and now if I ever
need to remember all the layers in the OSI model, I just use that
phrase. Even as a kid I still remember "Never Eat Shredded Wheat" when having to draw a compass.

N
W-|-E
S

We new NESW in Australia as "Never Eat Soggy Weet-Bix", well, at least some of us did.

I always found it easier to just remember the words directly, then a mnemonic. There was a mnemonic I made up to remember the orders of taxonomy, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus and Species, but I ended up remembering both very well, and never really needing the mnemonic.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Warpslide wrote to Ogg <=-

That reminds me of a time in college when we were studying networking.
We were being taught the OSI network layers and the teacher gave us the phrase to help remember them all: "Please Do Not Throw Sausage Pizza Away"

Application
Presentation
Session
Transport
Network
Data Link
Physical

I wonder if they still teach the OSI model. On a syadmin reddit, people
were asking what skills were important in networking, and the first
thing that came to my mind was problem isolation. The OSI model goes
along with that, being able to figure out from a user report of a
problem to the offending system is a discipline.



... Eval Day 1005
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Re: Re: Mnemonics
By: boraxman to Warpslide on Wed May 17 2023 11:52 pm

We new NESW in Australia as "Never Eat Soggy Weet-Bix", well, at least some of us did.

Is that Weetabix, or is Weet-Bix something different?

Nightfox
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Re: Re: Mnemonics
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Warpslide on Wed May 17 2023 08:19 am

I wonder if they still teach the OSI model. On a syadmin reddit, people

They still teach the OSI model around here but I have noticed a number of students and professionals forget what it is quite quickly.

Then you have guys writing TCP/IP dissectors that don't know ARP is layer 2.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
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On 17 May 2023, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

I wonder if they still teach the OSI model.

They did as of ~2012. This was for a CCNA course and OSI was required. He did mention that most people use the "collapsed" OSI model which only has four layers.


Jay

... Cows are just acoustic lawnmowers

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

mnemonic. There was a mnemonic I made up to remember the orders of taxonomy, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus and Species, but
I ended up remembering both very well, and never really needing the mnemonic.

This reminds me of the time when I had a class, where we were allowed to put whatever we wanted to onto our graphing calculators for use on the test.

So there was one particular formula that I decided would be reasonable to make into a program, so that I'd be able to answer any questions about it.

But, of course, writing a program generally means you have to know what you're doing, so by the time I got the program working I knew the formula _really_ well and in no way needed the program to help me on the test.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

Application
Presentation
Session
Transport
Network
Data Link
Physical

I wonder if they still teach the OSI model. On a syadmin reddit, people were asking what skills were important in networking, and the first
thing that came to my mind was problem isolation. The OSI model goes
along with that, being able to figure out from a user report of a
problem to the offending system is a discipline.

I took a networking class in grad school in... 2017?, and it was definitely still taught.

Not that I'm really sure what one would replace it with, as they'd probably have to touch on the various concepts regardless.

Not that having learned about it means that I can remember the levels. Though, in my job, there is a _large_ amount of, "this is the problem. What could be wrong at each level that would cause this problem?"

Though sometimes I get grumpy about that, because my level oftentimes winds up getting blamed for things that other people should know better on. Or should at least know well enough to not speculate beyond their ability. (meaning the difference between saying, "I've ruled out the application level, so it must be the presentation level" and "I've ruled out the application level, so the problem is somewhere lower".)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)

On 17 May 2023 at 06:28p, Arelor pondered and said...

They still teach the OSI model around here but I have noticed a number of students and professionals forget what it is quite quickly.

Then you have guys writing TCP/IP dissectors that don't know ARP is
layer 2.

The OSI model is a bit of a farce, and doesn't map
particularly well to the Internet. Some academics
have suggested just not teaching it at all; they
are not wrong.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

We new NESW in Australia as "Never Eat Soggy Weet-Bix", well, at leas some of us did.

Is that Weetabix, or is Weet-Bix something different?

Nightfox

Weet-Bix are rectangular slab like bricks of wheat. From what I've seen,
they are the same, except without the rounded corners.

... Youth is glorious, but it isn't a career

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

mnemonic. There was a mnemonic I made up to remember the orders of taxonomy, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus and Species, b I ended up remembering both very well, and never really needing the mnemonic.

This reminds me of the time when I had a class, where we were allowed to put whatever we wanted to onto our graphing calculators for use on the test.

So there was one particular formula that I decided would be reasonable
to make into a program, so that I'd be able to answer any questions
about it.

But, of course, writing a program generally means you have to know what you're doing, so by the time I got the program working I knew the
formula _really_ well and in no way needed the program to help me on the test.

Personally the more I use the information, the more it sticks. Creating mnemonics means you use the information, so you end up just remembering what it is you were trying to create the mnemonic to remember.

On a side note, this is what I consider a serious problem with schooling and rote learning. We learn by practical application, because that is how things
then make sense.

Mnemonics which DO make sense to use are those used in Assembler programming, MOV, INC, ADD, MUL, SHL, etc. Thats probably the only time I've ever found
menmonics useful.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Warpslide wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

They did as of ~2012. This was for a CCNA course and OSI was required.
He did mention that most people use the "collapsed" OSI model which
only has four layers.

We had a 10-layer model. it added, to the top of the model,

RELIGION
FINANCE
POLITICS



... BIRDS AREN'T REAL
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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Warpslide <=-

Warpslide wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

They did as of ~2012. This was for a CCNA course and OSI was required.
He did mention that most people use the "collapsed" OSI model which
only has four layers.

We had a 10-layer model. it added, to the top of the model,

RELIGION
FINANCE
POLITICS

Hahahahahaha! I like it.



... Great thing about UDP jokes? I don't care if you get them.
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On 17 May 2023 at 02:33p, Nightfox pondered and said...

Is that Weetabix, or is Weet-Bix something different?

In NZ we have Weet-bix, which I think is the same as the UK Weetabix.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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On 15 May 2023, Ogg said the following...

I'd be pretty bad at some arbitrary test that asks me to
remember random numbers in a particular order or some "objects"
that someone wants me to repeat.

That is, many years ago when I was pre-teen, someone
taught me a simple way to remember them with this phrase: "Man
Very Early Made Jars Stand Up Nearly Perpendicular." And THAT
is what I remember because it triggers a fond memory of that
moment when it was taught to me.

That reminds me of a time in college when we were studying networking. We were being taught the OSI network layers and the teacher gave us the phrase to help remember them all: "Please Do Not Throw Sausage Pizza Away"

Application
Presentation
Session
Transport
Network
Data Link
Physical

Similar to you, the phrase is what stuck in my head and now if I ever need to remember all the layers in the OSI model, I just use that phrase. Even as a kid I still remember "Never Eat Shredded Wheat" when having to draw a compass.

N
W-|-E
S


Jay

... Who called it a jetski and not a boatercycle?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)