• Re: Age Restrictions

    From Warpslide@21:3/110 to Spectre on Sun May 16 09:15:45 2021
    *** Quoting Spectre from a message to Vk3jed ***

    In Australia, it's generally only if they think you look under 25 (legal age is 18 for most things and 21 at some gaming venues).

    o.O 21? Can't think of anything that requires you to be 21....you're legally an adult here at 18... Sex, drugs and rock n roll..

    Yeah, I've always thought 21 was rather excessive. In the US you can join
    the military & vote at the age of 18. So they'll trust you to hold a gun & send you off to war, but no smoking or alcohol for you until 21...

    Here in Canada the drinking/smoking age is 18 or 19 depending the province.

    That being said, I remember an awful lot of friends smoking in high school before they turned 19. So while a minor cannot *purchase* tobacco it's not illegal for a minor to *possess* it, in Ontario at least. It looks like Nova Scotia & Alberta have laws against possession by minors.


    Jay

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Warpslide on Sun May 16 21:55:49 2021
    Yeah, I've always thought 21 was rather excessive. In the US you can
    join the military & vote at the age of 18. So they'll trust you to hold
    a gun & send you off to war, but no smoking or alcohol for you until
    21...

    Hey, taking drugs can affect your brain, especially when it's developing more.

    So can joining the military, but they _want_ to be able to affect your brain
    so you become a better soldier.

    (Not that I'm really making this argument; I was just entertained by the thought after I saw your message.)

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  • From k9zw@21:1/224 to Adept on Sun May 16 19:19:25 2021
    Yeah, I've always thought 21 was rather excessive. In the US you can join the military & vote at the age of 18. So they'll trust you to h a gun & send you off to war, but no smoking or alcohol for you until 21...


    If you parent(s)/guardian signs off, you can join younger.

    Most of the time the location where you are at spells out what age you can drink/smoke. So you could be 25 but in a dry place and not allowed to drink because of local rules.

    As for being trusted with a gun, most states allow you to hunt from around 12 years of age, and with a mentor much younger.

    While the military may trust its people with guns, it is very controlled and ammunition even more so. Mess around brings big troubles even if nothing happens.

    These same "youngsters" are in charge of far more lethal things than a few guns.

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

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  • From Jeff@21:1/180 to Warpslide on Mon May 17 16:19:12 2021
    On 16 May 2021, Warpslide said the following...
    Yeah, I've always thought 21 was rather excessive. In the US you can
    join the military & vote at the age of 18. So they'll trust you to hold
    a gun & send you off to war, but no smoking or alcohol for you until
    21...

    30 years ago, it was a little more flexible than that; I'm not sure if it
    still is or not. When I was in the Army, the drinking age on-post was determined by the post commander. So as long as one stayed on post, one could drink, at the Enlisted Club for example, or buy alcohol at the PX. Drinking off-post, or being intoxicated off-post, were subject to the usual laws.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to k9zw on Tue May 18 04:50:56 2021
    As for being trusted with a gun, most states allow you to hunt from
    around 12 years of age, and with a mentor much younger.

    To be fair, in Wisconsin a child can go to a bar with their parents and
    legally get an alcoholic drink, too.

    I think it might be a thing elsewhere in the US, too. Age limits tend to be squishy.

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    Only in the aggregate, I imagine. Any single vote is exceedingly unlikely to matter if an election will get more than a few hundred votes.

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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to k9zw on Tue May 18 15:05:31 2021
    k9zw wrote to Adept <=-

    Most of the time the location where you are at spells out what age you
    can drink/smoke. So you could be 25 but in a dry place and not allowed
    to drink because of local rules.

    IIRC, unless it has changed, there are some places in the US where the
    legal drinking age is 18.

    These same "youngsters" are in charge of far more lethal things than a
    few guns.

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    Yes.


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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Blue White on Wed May 19 06:08:31 2021
    IIRC, unless it has changed, there are some places in the US where the legal drinking age is 18.

    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s or something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to federal highway funding.

    So, weird exceptions aside (as you can drink in Wisconsin well before 18 if you're with your parents), 21 is the rule in the US.

    But there's probably more weird exceptions than I have any idea on.

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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to k9zw on Wed May 19 09:24:00 2021
    On 05-16-21 20:19, k9zw wrote to Adept <=-

    Most of the time the location where you are at spells out what age you
    can drink/smoke. So you could be 25 but in a dry place and not allowed
    to drink because of local rules.

    True, many places here have declared "dry" areas, where drinking alcohol is illegal outside licenced premises. Some remote Indigenous communities have banned alcohol altogether, because it's so harmful to them.

    As for being trusted with a gun, most states allow you to hunt from
    around 12 years of age, and with a mentor much younger.

    I don't know how that works here now, but when I was 10, Dad took me out hunting. And he was a good one to go with, as he was big on gun safety.

    These same "youngsters" are in charge of far more lethal things than a
    few guns.

    Hands up who drives a car? ;)

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    And so many people cast theirs without thinking. :/


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  • From k9zw@21:1/224 to Adept on Wed May 19 05:37:48 2021
    IIRC, unless it has changed, there are some places in the US where th legal drinking age is 18.

    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s or something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to federal highway funding.

    So, weird exceptions aside (as you can drink in Wisconsin well before 18 if you're with your parents), 21 is the rule in the US.


    Wisconsin definitely was lagered in adjusting to the national rule which tied 5% of highway funding to raising drinking ages to 21 (which was a really bad way of doing this - a Pandora's box that we have never since shut).

    Interesting some of Wisconsin's Biker Bars ended up keeping Class-B licenses because authorities refused to grant Class-A licenses. So they were
    restricted to serving Beer only. Doubt any are still around, but is was an anomaly that persisted for a while.

    Dry communities existed in Wisconsin until fairly recently when Ephraim repealed its old laws to pick up more tourism.

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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Vk3jed on Thu May 20 07:24:00 2021
    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    And so many people cast theirs without thinking. :/

    A near more worthless thing I don't think I've ever had. All those morons are the same ;) Like religion, politics doesn't seem to draw the best people. Mostly the self serving, you wouldn't "read about it" :)

    Spec


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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Adept on Wed May 19 16:03:49 2021
    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s or something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to federal highway funding.

    So, weird exceptions aside (as you can drink in Wisconsin well before
    18 if you're with your parents), 21 is the rule in the US.

    Yes, I thought it was Wisconsin. The federal government will tie a lot of things to highway funding if the state won't give into their way otherwise.



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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Spectre on Thu May 20 14:36:00 2021
    On 05-20-21 08:24, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    And so many people cast theirs without thinking. :/

    A near more worthless thing I don't think I've ever had. All those
    morons are the same ;) Like religion, politics doesn't seem to draw
    the best people. Mostly the self serving, you wouldn't "read about it"
    :)

    Spec

    Sadly, true. Arthur C Clarke, in "The Songs of Distant Earth", came up with an interesting way to elect the President of a small colony on a distant planet:

    1. Anyone who actually wanted the job was automatically disqualified.

    2. Put the rest of the names into a hat and draw one at random.

    3. Declare the winner the new President. ;)


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Vk3jed on Fri May 21 08:57:00 2021
    1. Anyone who actually wanted the job was automatically disqualified.
    2. Put the rest of the names into a hat and draw one at random.
    3. Declare the winner the new President. ;)

    Sounds remarkably effective. Of course you could still get a complete dud but at least a fairly neutral one :)

    Spec


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Spectre on Fri May 21 16:25:00 2021
    On 05-21-21 09:57, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    1. Anyone who actually wanted the job was automatically disqualified.
    2. Put the rest of the names into a hat and draw one at random.
    3. Declare the winner the new President. ;)

    Sounds remarkably effective. Of course you could still get a complete
    dud but at least a fairly neutral one :)

    True, but at least not one with ulterior motives. :)


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  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to Blue White on Fri May 21 09:16:18 2021
    On 19 May 2021, 05:03p, Blue White said the following...

    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s or something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to feder highway funding.

    Yes, I thought it was Wisconsin. The federal government will tie a lot
    of things to highway funding if the state won't give into their way otherwise.

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from 55, in order to receive federal funding.


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  • From k9zw@21:1/101 to Black Panther on Sat May 22 06:22:32 2021
    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to highway funding.

    Yes, I thought it was Wisconsin. The federal government will tie a l of things to highway funding if the state won't give into their way otherwise.

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The
    federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from
    55, in order to receive federal funding.


    Did Wisconsin need to be nudged to up some of their roads to 70 mph too?

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  • From Warpslide@21:3/110 to k9zw on Fri May 21 14:45:33 2021
    *** Quoting k9zw from a message to Black Panther ***

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The
    federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from
    55, in order to receive federal funding.

    Did Wisconsin need to be nudged to up some of their roads to 70 mph
    too?

    Oh I wish Ontario would do this. The speed limit on most of our highways is either 90kph (55.9mph) or 100kph (62.1mph).

    There are a few sections of highways here in Ontario where they're "experimenting" with a speed limit of 110kph (68.4mph), but these are just short stretches between Hamilton & Niagara Falls, Sarnia & London and Ottawa to the Quebec border.

    I would venture to guess that most people on the major highways drive *at least* 120kph (74.6mph), if you actually drove 100kph you're liable to get honked at and one particular finger waved in your direction.


    Jay

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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Black Panther on Sat May 22 09:37:23 2021
    Yes, I thought it was Wisconsin. The federal government will tie a lot
    of things to highway funding if the state won't give into their way otherwise.

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The
    federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from
    55, in order to receive federal funding.


    IIRC, back in time, they did the same thing to force some states to lower
    their Speed Limit to the nationally-suggested 55, too.



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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Warpslide on Sat May 22 09:42:17 2021
    There are a few sections of highways here in Ontario where they're "experimenting" with a speed limit of 110kph (68.4mph), but these are
    just short stretches between Hamilton & Niagara Falls, Sarnia & London
    and Ottawa to the Quebec border.

    I visited Canada in 2017. As I am a "furriner" that didn't want to be
    banned from visiting again, I tried to adhere to the posted limits as best
    as I could. On the Trans-Canadian, I was always quick to move over to the
    far right when a passing lane opened up, and there were a lot of happy Canadians who were quick to get around me. :)

    I also drove the London-Sarnia 110kph highway... I dunno if it is because I
    am so used to reading my speed in mph but going 110kph seemed a lot faster
    than 68.4mph! I usually drive 70-75mph here. :)

    I think that extra digit broke my brain somehow.



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  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to k9zw on Sat May 22 09:45:46 2021
    On 22 May 2021, 07:22a, k9zw said the following...

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from 55, in order to receive federal funding.

    Did Wisconsin need to be nudged to up some of their roads to 70 mph too?

    Probably. Isn't part of 41 now at 75?


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  • From Warpslide@21:3/110 to Spectre on Sun May 16 10:15:44 2021
    *** Quoting Spectre from a message to Vk3jed ***

    In Australia, it's generally only if they think you look under 25 (legal age is 18 for most things and 21 at some gaming venues).

    o.O 21? Can't think of anything that requires you to be 21....you're legally an adult here at 18... Sex, drugs and rock n roll..

    Yeah, I've always thought 21 was rather excessive. In the US you can join
    the military & vote at the age of 18. So they'll trust you to hold a gun & send you off to war, but no smoking or alcohol for you until 21...

    Here in Canada the drinking/smoking age is 18 or 19 depending the province.

    That being said, I remember an awful lot of friends smoking in high school before they turned 19. So while a minor cannot *purchase* tobacco it's not illegal for a minor to *possess* it, in Ontario at least. It looks like Nova Scotia & Alberta have laws against possession by minors.


    Jay

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Warpslide on Sun May 16 22:55:48 2021
    Yeah, I've always thought 21 was rather excessive. In the US you can
    join the military & vote at the age of 18. So they'll trust you to hold
    a gun & send you off to war, but no smoking or alcohol for you until
    21...

    Hey, taking drugs can affect your brain, especially when it's developing more.

    So can joining the military, but they _want_ to be able to affect your brain
    so you become a better soldier.

    (Not that I'm really making this argument; I was just entertained by the thought after I saw your message.)

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  • From k9zw@21:1/224 to Adept on Sun May 16 20:19:24 2021
    Yeah, I've always thought 21 was rather excessive. In the US you can join the military & vote at the age of 18. So they'll trust you to h a gun & send you off to war, but no smoking or alcohol for you until 21...


    If you parent(s)/guardian signs off, you can join younger.

    Most of the time the location where you are at spells out what age you can drink/smoke. So you could be 25 but in a dry place and not allowed to drink because of local rules.

    As for being trusted with a gun, most states allow you to hunt from around 12 years of age, and with a mentor much younger.

    While the military may trust its people with guns, it is very controlled and ammunition even more so. Mess around brings big troubles even if nothing happens.

    These same "youngsters" are in charge of far more lethal things than a few guns.

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

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  • From Jeff@21:1/180 to Warpslide on Mon May 17 17:19:12 2021
    On 16 May 2021, Warpslide said the following...
    Yeah, I've always thought 21 was rather excessive. In the US you can
    join the military & vote at the age of 18. So they'll trust you to hold
    a gun & send you off to war, but no smoking or alcohol for you until
    21...

    30 years ago, it was a little more flexible than that; I'm not sure if it
    still is or not. When I was in the Army, the drinking age on-post was determined by the post commander. So as long as one stayed on post, one could drink, at the Enlisted Club for example, or buy alcohol at the PX. Drinking off-post, or being intoxicated off-post, were subject to the usual laws.

    Jeff.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken, who indeed was a racist thereby proving himself right.

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to k9zw on Tue May 18 05:50:56 2021
    As for being trusted with a gun, most states allow you to hunt from
    around 12 years of age, and with a mentor much younger.

    To be fair, in Wisconsin a child can go to a bar with their parents and
    legally get an alcoholic drink, too.

    I think it might be a thing elsewhere in the US, too. Age limits tend to be squishy.

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    Only in the aggregate, I imagine. Any single vote is exceedingly unlikely to matter if an election will get more than a few hundred votes.

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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to k9zw on Tue May 18 16:05:30 2021
    k9zw wrote to Adept <=-

    Most of the time the location where you are at spells out what age you
    can drink/smoke. So you could be 25 but in a dry place and not allowed
    to drink because of local rules.

    IIRC, unless it has changed, there are some places in the US where the
    legal drinking age is 18.

    These same "youngsters" are in charge of far more lethal things than a
    few guns.

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    Yes.


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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Blue White on Wed May 19 07:08:30 2021
    IIRC, unless it has changed, there are some places in the US where the legal drinking age is 18.

    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s or something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to federal highway funding.

    So, weird exceptions aside (as you can drink in Wisconsin well before 18 if you're with your parents), 21 is the rule in the US.

    But there's probably more weird exceptions than I have any idea on.

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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to k9zw on Wed May 19 10:24:00 2021
    On 05-16-21 20:19, k9zw wrote to Adept <=-

    Most of the time the location where you are at spells out what age you
    can drink/smoke. So you could be 25 but in a dry place and not allowed
    to drink because of local rules.

    True, many places here have declared "dry" areas, where drinking alcohol is illegal outside licenced premises. Some remote Indigenous communities have banned alcohol altogether, because it's so harmful to them.

    As for being trusted with a gun, most states allow you to hunt from
    around 12 years of age, and with a mentor much younger.

    I don't know how that works here now, but when I was 10, Dad took me out hunting. And he was a good one to go with, as he was big on gun safety.

    These same "youngsters" are in charge of far more lethal things than a
    few guns.

    Hands up who drives a car? ;)

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    And so many people cast theirs without thinking. :/


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  • From k9zw@21:1/224 to Adept on Wed May 19 06:37:48 2021
    IIRC, unless it has changed, there are some places in the US where th legal drinking age is 18.

    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s or something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to federal highway funding.

    So, weird exceptions aside (as you can drink in Wisconsin well before 18 if you're with your parents), 21 is the rule in the US.


    Wisconsin definitely was lagered in adjusting to the national rule which tied 5% of highway funding to raising drinking ages to 21 (which was a really bad way of doing this - a Pandora's box that we have never since shut).

    Interesting some of Wisconsin's Biker Bars ended up keeping Class-B licenses because authorities refused to grant Class-A licenses. So they were
    restricted to serving Beer only. Doubt any are still around, but is was an anomaly that persisted for a while.

    Dry communities existed in Wisconsin until fairly recently when Ephraim repealed its old laws to pick up more tourism.

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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Vk3jed on Thu May 20 08:24:00 2021
    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    And so many people cast theirs without thinking. :/

    A near more worthless thing I don't think I've ever had. All those morons are the same ;) Like religion, politics doesn't seem to draw the best people. Mostly the self serving, you wouldn't "read about it" :)

    Spec


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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Adept on Wed May 19 17:03:48 2021
    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s or something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to federal highway funding.

    So, weird exceptions aside (as you can drink in Wisconsin well before
    18 if you're with your parents), 21 is the rule in the US.

    Yes, I thought it was Wisconsin. The federal government will tie a lot of things to highway funding if the state won't give into their way otherwise.



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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Spectre on Thu May 20 15:36:00 2021
    On 05-20-21 08:24, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Being trusted with a vote is perhaps more consequential?

    And so many people cast theirs without thinking. :/

    A near more worthless thing I don't think I've ever had. All those
    morons are the same ;) Like religion, politics doesn't seem to draw
    the best people. Mostly the self serving, you wouldn't "read about it"
    :)

    Spec

    Sadly, true. Arthur C Clarke, in "The Songs of Distant Earth", came up with an interesting way to elect the President of a small colony on a distant planet:

    1. Anyone who actually wanted the job was automatically disqualified.

    2. Put the rest of the names into a hat and draw one at random.

    3. Declare the winner the new President. ;)


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  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Vk3jed on Fri May 21 09:57:00 2021
    1. Anyone who actually wanted the job was automatically disqualified.
    2. Put the rest of the names into a hat and draw one at random.
    3. Declare the winner the new President. ;)

    Sounds remarkably effective. Of course you could still get a complete dud but at least a fairly neutral one :)

    Spec


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Spectre on Fri May 21 17:25:00 2021
    On 05-21-21 09:57, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    1. Anyone who actually wanted the job was automatically disqualified.
    2. Put the rest of the names into a hat and draw one at random.
    3. Declare the winner the new President. ;)

    Sounds remarkably effective. Of course you could still get a complete
    dud but at least a fairly neutral one :)

    True, but at least not one with ulterior motives. :)


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  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to Blue White on Fri May 21 10:16:18 2021
    On 19 May 2021, 05:03p, Blue White said the following...

    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s or something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to feder highway funding.

    Yes, I thought it was Wisconsin. The federal government will tie a lot
    of things to highway funding if the state won't give into their way otherwise.

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from 55, in order to receive federal funding.


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  • From k9zw@21:1/101 to Black Panther on Sat May 22 07:22:32 2021
    Wisconsin was one of the last to change this, back in the 1980s something, and they did it because the drinking age was tied to highway funding.

    Yes, I thought it was Wisconsin. The federal government will tie a l of things to highway funding if the state won't give into their way otherwise.

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The
    federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from
    55, in order to receive federal funding.


    Did Wisconsin need to be nudged to up some of their roads to 70 mph too?

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  • From Warpslide@21:3/110 to k9zw on Fri May 21 15:45:32 2021
    *** Quoting k9zw from a message to Black Panther ***

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The
    federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from
    55, in order to receive federal funding.

    Did Wisconsin need to be nudged to up some of their roads to 70 mph
    too?

    Oh I wish Ontario would do this. The speed limit on most of our highways is either 90kph (55.9mph) or 100kph (62.1mph).

    There are a few sections of highways here in Ontario where they're "experimenting" with a speed limit of 110kph (68.4mph), but these are just short stretches between Hamilton & Niagara Falls, Sarnia & London and Ottawa to the Quebec border.

    I would venture to guess that most people on the major highways drive *at least* 120kph (74.6mph), if you actually drove 100kph you're liable to get honked at and one particular finger waved in your direction.


    Jay

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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Black Panther on Sat May 22 10:37:22 2021
    Yes, I thought it was Wisconsin. The federal government will tie a lot
    of things to highway funding if the state won't give into their way otherwise.

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The
    federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from
    55, in order to receive federal funding.


    IIRC, back in time, they did the same thing to force some states to lower
    their Speed Limit to the nationally-suggested 55, too.



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  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Warpslide on Sat May 22 10:42:16 2021
    There are a few sections of highways here in Ontario where they're "experimenting" with a speed limit of 110kph (68.4mph), but these are
    just short stretches between Hamilton & Niagara Falls, Sarnia & London
    and Ottawa to the Quebec border.

    I visited Canada in 2017. As I am a "furriner" that didn't want to be
    banned from visiting again, I tried to adhere to the posted limits as best
    as I could. On the Trans-Canadian, I was always quick to move over to the
    far right when a passing lane opened up, and there were a lot of happy Canadians who were quick to get around me. :)

    I also drove the London-Sarnia 110kph highway... I dunno if it is because I
    am so used to reading my speed in mph but going 110kph seemed a lot faster
    than 68.4mph! I usually drive 70-75mph here. :)

    I think that extra digit broke my brain somehow.



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  • From Black Panther@21:1/186 to k9zw on Sat May 22 10:45:46 2021
    On 22 May 2021, 07:22a, k9zw said the following...

    It was the same as the speed limit on the interstate highways. The federal gov't forced Wisconsin to raise their speed limit to 65, from 55, in order to receive federal funding.

    Did Wisconsin need to be nudged to up some of their roads to 70 mph too?

    Probably. Isn't part of 41 now at 75?


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