Argos wrote to All <=-

The dilemma now is the nuclear waste fallout withing families
"DISOWNING" each other completely. No communication, total silence and yes, the Holidays with family did not exist.

So, I guess the real question is simple. Is this appropriate and is
this an approach to resolve?

Let me take the politics out using my story.

I have two brothers. They got married and had kids. Later, I got married. But there was always some sort of strain between us that I never understood. Over time, I was not invited to things like their kid's birthdays or graduations (yet my parents and even my aunt and uncle were).

So it was obvious that they didn't want me in their lives.

But I figure that's OK. It's their lives and their families and, so, their decisions.

Then there was an "event" between a niece and my wife that was used to cause a big break up. Personally, I felt relieved. Even though I never understood the nature of the tension, I could feel it.

It's been 10 years now without talking to either of my brothers and I have to say that I don't miss a thing. I still have holidays, but not with them and their families.

Right now, my mom is holding us in communications. But once she passes, I probably won't ever have any contact with them for the rest of my life.

And I'm OK with that.


... Love is grand. Divorce is twenty grand.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

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I guess I find in question is the nuclear explosion within a family when

hese

opinions are open topic conversations and one of the opposing sides push to always make their opinion "my way or the highway" point.

It is no untold story politics and polarization in the USA after our November elections and the overwhelming Win on a candidate. AND, the fury of the opposition over the epic loss.

The dilemma now is the nuclear waste fallout withing families "DISOWNING"

ach

other completely. No communication, total silence and yes, the Holidays with family did not exist.

So, I guess the real question is simple. Is this appropriate and is this an approach to resolve?

In our family we have one "my way" member. Their side lost this time.
Either way, we know not to bring anything up (even the parts of "we" that
are on the same side, too) and that is how we deal with it.

Although we've never made a united decision to do so, we don't open the
topic and it usually won't come up.


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FWIW the strength of the division does seem a bit wild to us outsiders, or at least this one.

IMHO, it has something to do with not just disliking a politicians views
but actually disliking the person themselves. Our more recent politicians,
one in particular that is about to be President again, seem to arouse a
very strong emotion (dislike and like) among people who, in past, were not so quick to "divide" from others, so to speak.

However, in my 50+ years there have always been people who seemed more quick
to dislike the person vs. just the views, and they were always quick to
react to anyone who seemed to align with whoever they disliked. However,
it has only been *very* recently in those 50+ years that the average joe
had an outlet -- social media -- to share that dislike among a much larger audience than just their family and friends.


* SLMR 2.1a * Repartee: An insult wearing a suit and tie.
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It seems to me that the US has been very divided since the 2000 election, and it has gotten worse with the presidential candidates we've had since then.

nd

I feel like there are more important things to worry about, but many people

r

possibly too distracted with an "us vs. them" mindset about political views, and perhaps the political higher-ups are trying to distract and divide us.

2000 is a good target, but I think it may have started a few years earlier
with the 1992 election. I don't think it is a coincidence that one of the mouthpieces involved then was involved again in 2016, an even more devisive political cycle.

I also don't think it is a coincidence that in time frame where we believe we've become more divided, during that same time we've also seen the rise of (1) cable news networks and then (2) social media.

I do agree there are forces working to distract and divide. Some of them probably are our own politicians, while others are doing so in order to get more eyes on their platforms (which brings in more $$$), and other still (foreign actors) are doing so in order to benefit from us being divided.
Those foreign actors are using social media to do so.

Twitter/X and Meta are two examples of corporate entities that have
benefited greatly from us being divided.


* SLMR 2.1a * Man, that lightning sounds closõ¯¨©~®Ô NO CARRIER
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Twitter/X and Meta are two examples of corporate entities that have benefited greatly from us being divided.

bourgeoisie class benefts greatly from working cass disunity!
we must be united! <3

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Re: Family vs Politics - Did
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Tue Jan 07 2025 09:29 am

Twitter/X and Meta are two examples of corporate entities that have benefited greatly from us being divided.

I just heard in the news this morning that Mark Zuckerberg made an announcement saying their fact checkers are biased, and they plan to get rid of their fact checkers and replace them with a 'community notes' section similar to X (I don't really use Twitter/X, so I don't know what that is).

Also, in some ways I feel like platforms like Facebook, Twitter, etc. are simply platforms to allow people to communicate and share things like they would if they were hanging out in person, and thus shouldn't filter their content, but on the other hand, I also don't want a lot of fake news being spread around (there has already been too much of that).

Nightfox
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I just heard in the news this morning that Mark Zuckerberg made an announcement saying their fact checkers are biased, and they plan to
get rid of their fact checkers and replace them with a 'community
notes' section similar to X (I don't really use Twitter/X, so I don't
know what that is).

I think a lot of this is "comply in advance" in a new (political)
climate for tech companies. Path of least resistance for them RN.

But also i think robust self-moderation tools for users is really the only scalable answer. "Community Notes" are helpful, but can be gamed.

Just give me the power to block/mute whatever content, topics, people or businesses that i don't want to see. It's not perfect, but Bluesky's "composable moderation" has kept a lot of dumb crap and idiots out of my
feed. Not perfect, labelers can (and have been) abused. But i prefer this
to Mastodon's instance-based moderation, which is more like posting on a
local BBS where the sysop has the power to moderate :)


|07|02/|10\|03/ |11j0hnny a1pha |03\|10/|02\|07


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Also, in some ways I feel like platforms like Facebook, Twitter, etc. are simply platforms to allow people to communicate and share things like they would if they were hanging out in person, and thus shouldn't filter their content,

That is how I wish they could work and, if the people using them were smart about it they could. That said...

but on the other hand, I also don't want a lot of fake news being
spread around (there has already been too much of that).

... there are a *lot* of people who believe that social media is a legit source of "real" news. So long as you tell them something that supports
their existing beliefs, you can pretty much get them to believe anything
posted on their trusted social media source.

There are one or two posters on FIDO Politics who swear by Twitter/X
because of the 1/10 times something posted there turns out to be true.
They find it even more "true" if it is a post from Elon himself.


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Re: Family vs Politics - Did
By: j0hnny a1pha to Nightfox on Tue Jan 07 2025 01:34 pm

But also i think robust self-moderation tools for users is really the only scalable answer. "Community Notes" are helpful, but can be gamed.

They had it figured out in the Usenet era.

Let the providers carry everything, let each user decide what he wants to read.

It is not rocket science. The problem is nowadays users don't want to ignore the things they dislike. They want them obliterated so nobody can read them.


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They had it figured out in the Usenet era.

Let the providers carry everything, let each user decide what he wants to read

It is not rocket science. The problem is nowadays users don't want to ignore the things they dislike. They want them obliterated so nobody can read them.

The one difference is that, with usenet, you could use your reader to pick
and choose the topics and users you wanted to see things from. With social media, the users swipe and there it is, already opened. Also, some of them don't seem to understand that what they are being shown is public and not something that was specifically targeted at them (aside from ads), and it
isn't "on their phone."

I think the people who are most triggered by what they see on social media
are probably ones who'd have never figured out how to use usenet.

I do miss those usenet days. ;)


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Arelor wrote to j0hnny a1pha <=-

It is not rocket science. The problem is nowadays users don't want to ignore the things they dislike. They want them obliterated so nobody
can read them.

See my earlier post - it's easier to amplify a lie through the
manipulation of social network feeds to the point where it
because accepted truth.

That does double-duty of forcing the opposition to debunk the lie, which
takes energy from the spread of their platform.

I'm torn - I see Facebook and Twitter as a Convenient Evil, need to find
a way to minimize the negativity and falsehood.




--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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BY: poindexter FORTRAN (21:4/122)

|11pF|09> |10I'm torn - I see Facebook and Twitter as a Convenient Evil, need to find|07
|11pF|09> |10a way to minimize the negativity and falsehood.|07
Problem is there is no **independent** fact checkers. They all have a bias.


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Re: Re: Family vs Politics - Did
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Sun Jan 12 2025 09:57 am

I'm torn - I see Facebook and Twitter as a Convenient Evil, need to find
a way to minimize the negativity and falsehood.

I don't know why people keep using that stuff. I certainly don't know why people consider it convenient to begin with.

I have friends that use it because they have other friends who can only be reached over one of these platforms, but that does not mean they are convenient. That means somebody has decided they want to operate on it. It is like a web store that decides to use a particular payment processor and ends up causing customers to go through it. That is not convenient for the customer; that is convenient for the store.

Mainstream social media is a time burner designed to make people waste hours reading side content. If you are trying to get a message distributed over it you are wasting your time because it will get burried under a pile of other messages. It is like watching a TV station that has developed time compression technology so they can shove 15 minutes of stuff they want you to watch for every minute of stuff you actually want to watch, and somehow they manage to cram it all in a 30 seconds package.

Convenient stuff makes life easier. Social networks have never made my life easier.


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Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I don't know why people keep using that stuff. I certainly don't know
why people consider it convenient to begin with.

If you're running a business, Facebook is an easy way to get reach.

I have friends that use it because they have other friends who can only
be reached over one of these platforms, but that does not mean they are convenient.

I'm in my 50s. Many of my friends aren't technical, got onto Facebook
and they're fine with it. They're the people I contact the most on it.




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Also, in some ways I feel like platforms like Facebook, Twitter, etc. are simply platforms to allow people to communicate and share things like
they would if they were hanging out in person, and thus shouldn't filter their content, but on the other hand, I also don't want a lot of fake
news being spread around (there has already been too much of that).

I agree with you here. I these are meant to be platforms to share things and communicate with each other and should not be filtered, aside from what they feel is inappropriate content like adult content. However, we need to somehow educate people that these platforms are not the best way to get your news, or at least educate how to vet so called news on these platforms. I don't know how people thought that this is the best methods of news content.

Lloyd (neoshock) sysop @ Vintage Pi BBS
vintagepi.asuscomm.com

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Re: Re: Family vs Politics - Did
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Wed Jan 15 2025 06:46 am

If you're running a business, Facebook is an easy way to get reach.

The clinic here used to have a Facebook page with a lot of reach.

The boss decided to shut it down because it wasn't cost effective. The impact of shutting it down was zero.

I have the feeling lots of people are keeping a social media presence because they have been told they need it, but they are not running the numbers as to how much bang they get for their buck. A marketing agent once told me the dirty secret that so many marketing plans cost way more than what they can realistically generate in revenue for the customer - I definitively think "free" social media is in this category for most firms.


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Re: Re: Family vs Politics - Did
By: neoshock to Nightfox on Wed Jan 15 2025 09:58 am

I agree with you here. I these are meant to be platforms to share things and communicate with each other and should not be filtered, aside from what they feel is inappropriate content like adult content. However, we need to somehow educate people that these platforms are not the best way to get your news, or at least educate how to vet so called news on these platforms. I don't know how people thought that this is the best methods of news content.

Well, TV and radio news are junk services and I think enough people knows that already. This begs the question: if you know regular mainstream news outlets are junk, where will you get your news from?

It is no wonder people is looking for news elsewhere. Periodists today are panicking and organizing so many propaganda campaigns in order to attempt to restore the reputation of TV, radio and newspapers, while shunning alternative sources of information. The issue is the damage has already been done and nobody trusts periodists anymore.

I mean, if 100% of the things experience which get published in mainstream media are published in an inaccurate, distorted or straight manipulated way, what reason do I have to believe the rest of the newspaper content is any different? Which incentive do I have to buy a newspaper?

Also, most periodist types I know in person are assholes.

Periodists made people look for stuff elsewhere. They lit this fire. Let them burn in it. The only regret is we still have no good news outlets.


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Re: Re: Family vs Politics - Did
By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jan 15 2025 12:16 pm

I have the feeling lots of people are keeping a social media presence because they have been told they need it, but they are not running the numbers as to how much bang they get for their buck. A marketing agent

I actually like using Facebook mainly because I like seeing what my friends are sharing. If there wasn't a good reason, I probably wouldn't use it.

Nightfox
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Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

If you're running a business, Facebook is an easy way to get reach.

The clinic here used to have a Facebook page with a lot of reach.

The boss decided to shut it down because it wasn't cost effective. The impact of shutting it down was zero.

Yes, truth be told, I don't post anything personal any more to Facebook
- mostly art photos that get auto-posted from Instagram and I use it to
keep in touch with some old friends.

I signed up for pixelfed.social, looks like an Instagram-like photo
sharing site, but uses ActivityPub as a back-end. It'll talk to Mastadon
and other federated servers, which is great for sharing with other
users.

I'm rooting for the Fediverse. A sysop on a network I was on and one of
our callers started identica and has worked on back-end protocols for
some time. He's been involved with ActivityPub recently, just wrote the
book on it.

I have the feeling lots of people are keeping a social media presence because they have been told they need it, but they are not running the numbers as to how much bang they get for their buck. A marketing agent once told me the dirty secret that so many marketing plans cost way
more than what they can realistically generate in revenue for the
customer - I definitively think "free" social media is in this category for most firms.

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... ALL HAIL THE CODE!
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neoshock wrote to Nightfox <=-

However, we need to somehow educate people that these platforms are not the best way to get your news, or at least educate how to vet so called news on these platforms. I don't know how people thought that this is
the best methods of news content.

The process of reading an article in your feed with an incendiary
headline and re-sending it without reading the story blows me away. SO
many times the source is suspect or the headline misleading (if not
entirely incorrect). But it ties into people's dopamine hit...

The fact that these services are designed to be addictive is the rub.
How do grown people counter a service designed by behavioral scientists
- let alone children?



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Arelor wrote to neoshock <=-

Well, TV and radio news are junk services and I think enough people
knows that already. This begs the question: if you know regular
mainstream news outlets are junk, where will you get your news from?

I want to find a nice independent news feed not run or owned by people
with a significant political bias. Is that still possible?

Periodists made people look for stuff elsewhere. They lit this fire.
Let them burn in it. The only regret is we still have no good news outlets.

We need to figure some way to make news pay. Newspapers got their start
when the classified ads subsidized news desks. Television news got the
airwaves for free with the requirement of having news.

What do we do in an environment where consumers expect everything for
free, and companies make billions off of people's content?

Jaron Lanier has some wide-eyed ideas regarding the internet. One I
liked was transferring the wealth of the web from the service owners to
the content creators through micropayments. Like a meme? Send the
creator a fraction of a penny. Like a work of art? Send them something.

It's awfully pie-in-the-sky optimistic and I don't see the social
network owners allowing something like that to threaten their revenue
systems. But it's nice to dream.

In a scenario like that, self-published or independent journalism would
thrive.

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Re: Re: Family vs Politics - Did
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Thu Jan 16 2025 07:55 am

I want to find a nice independent news feed not run or owned by people
with a significant political bias. Is that still possible?

I don't think so. I doubt people knows how much it costs to produce news. People is not willing to pay what independent news are worth anyway, so you are at the mercy of whatever group happens to be sponsoring your favourite news outlets anyway.

Independent news also have a tendency to be very biased. Usually, you dig a bit and it turns out they are badly indebted or are funded by a non-selfless org.


Truth to be told, since TV stations and newspapers tend to operate under a license granted by the Administration, they will end up doing what the Administration tells them to do, eventually.


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