Today I woke up at 6am then went back to sleep and woke up at 10am which is really late for me.

Did a bunch of things for children today, took youngest daughter to the bank to help her get an account changed over to a no fees student one, took
youngest son some lunch to his work, got visited by oldest son and his partner so fed them lunch.

Later we went over to oldest sons house to help with digging some holes and planting a few trees/shurbs.

Fish N Chips for dinner, some TV news, then youngest son visited, and now
some quick BBS stuff then into Netflix as I'm watching the Queens Gambit at
the moment. I am enjoying this show and it's got enough twists and turns to keep me hooked.

Tomorrow I am working on a FM antenna that has suffered some wind damage and may do some more web site form stuff..

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

some quick BBS stuff then into Netflix as I'm watching the Queens Gambit at the moment. I am enjoying this show and it's got enough twists and turns to keep me hooked.

I got back into Chess about six months ago mainly due to lockdown. Then
finally got a Netflix subscription for same reason and came across the Queens Gambit. I really enjoyed it and I can see its affect on friends, family and colleagues as more and more are taking up the game.

Do you play? I am on chess.com mostly but have an account on lichess.

Wonder if there is a Chess door game!?!

RenMas

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net (21:1/172)

I was up until 03:00 this morning trying to migrate my Mastodon server (mastodon.fidonet.io) to FreeBSD 12.2. Thought I had done it until this morning when I sat down to finish the installation and find out one key component not only has been deprecated (but is still required by Mastodon) but also does not support FreeBSD. A bit frustrating to say the least.

Why move to FreeBSD? I like this platform a lot. I like BSD a lot - it's simpler, cleaner, no SystemD and thereis only ONE FreeBSD, not like Linux with 200+ different distributions (to each his own but I'm tired of it).

Also - CentOS is basically dead as we know it (CentOS 8 will be deprecated earlier than expected and CentOS 7 will be supported until 2024 or something) and I want to move all my servers to this platform instead.

I have three servers left of ~50 virtual machines:

Matrix
Mastodon
Nextcloud

Not any of these three will be easy to move but I like a good challenge and will be on holiday for another 1,5 weeks so what the hell...

Sorry for rambling.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)

Do you play? I am on chess.com mostly but have an account on lichess.

Who are you on chess.com? I'm just having a look, as "Weekend-Hacker"..

Spec


--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: (21:3/101)

Joacim Melin wrote to Avon <=-

Why move to FreeBSD? I like this platform a lot. I like BSD a lot -
it's simpler, cleaner, no SystemD and thereis only ONE FreeBSD, not
like Linux with 200+ different distributions (to each his own but I'm tired of it).

I'm tempted to go back. Before Linux was stable enough for
production, I'd run FreeBSD. I started with a small mail server
running Sendmail and qpopper for 70 mail accounts and moved to
hosting a major video game release on an FTP server and web server
running FreeBSD. It might be interesting to see how far it has come.

And, my life is getting a bit Ubuntu-heavy. :)



... Discover your formulas and abandon them
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Twas Tuesday, December 29th when Joacim Melin said...

I was up until 03:00 this morning trying to migrate my Mastodon server (mastodon.fidonet.io) to FreeBSD 12.2. Thought I had done it until this morning when I sat down to finish the installation and find out one key component not only has been deprecated (but is still required by Mastodon) but also does not support FreeBSD. A bit frustrating to say the least.

Ooof been in that type of situation before, frustrating indeed.

Joacim Melin around Tuesday, December 29th...

Why move to FreeBSD? I like this platform a lot. I like BSD a lot - it's simpler, cleaner, no SystemD and thereis only ONE FreeBSD, not like Linux with 200+ different distributions (to each his own but I'm tired of it).

I run FreeBSD on some servers as well and love FreeBSD. What makes you dislike systemd? It's popular to hate on, but honestly its a pretty nice system. FreeBSD has been heavily considering a move to a OSX launchd-like system FWIW, though I haven't checked on the state of it for a few months.

The BSD's are nice in that they are "total" whereas Linux is really just the kernel, then you have Debian/RH/etc. bases. FreeBSD vs NetBSD vs OpenBSD vs ... they are all VERY differnet though.

Twas Tuesday, December 29th when Joacim Melin said...

Also - CentOS is basically dead as we know it (CentOS 8 will be deprecated earlier than expected and CentOS 7 will be supported until 2024 or something) and I want to move all my servers to this platform instead.

I work professionally on a product that is CentOS based. When RH (IBM!$@#) announced this change I was mad, but not really shocked due to the IBM bit. We're still weighing options...

Joacim Melin around Tuesday, December 29th...

I have three servers left of ~50 virtual machines:
Matrix Mastodon Nextcloud

Funny -- I've been running Nextcloud for a few years, and the most recent upgrade I did also included moving it from a FreeBSD jail to a Dockerized setup.



--

NuSkooler
Xibalba BBS @ xibalba.l33t.codes / 44510(telnet) 44511(ssh)
ENiGMA 1/2 BBS WHQ | Phenom | 67 | iMPURE | ACiDic

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.13.1)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

Who are you on chess.com? I'm just having a look, as "Weekend-Hacker"..

I just sent you a game request, my ELO is -661 compared to yours! I am cayote76.

RenMas

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net (21:1/172)

Ahh yeah. So I found you. I'm actually back at 800 at the moment.. joined the game, 24hrs for moves I see...

Spec


--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: (21:3/101)

Why move to FreeBSD? I like this platform a lot. I like BSD a lot -
it's simpler, cleaner, no SystemD and thereis only ONE FreeBSD, not
like Linux with 200+ different distributions (to each his own but I'm
tired of it).

Hehe, I won't tell you about FuryBSD, GhostBSD and the miriad of
specialist distributions of freebsd ;P

FreeBSD is nice, I like it. ZFS is great. I'm with you on systemd, though
I put up with it on linux. Unfortunatly there isn't many good
alternatives without systemd, devaun and void are probably the best two,
but, meh.

It's kind of sad when to run software without systemd, you need to
emulate systemd parts to get some stuff to work.. eg GNOME.

oh well. I suppose that's the way the majority want it. Thankfully there
are still choices like FreeBSD, and for the time being most software runs
on it.

Andrew


--- Talisman v0.8-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: HappyLand v2.0 - telnet://happyland.zapto.org:11892/ (21:1/182)

I work professionally on a product that is CentOS based. When RH
(IBM!$@#) announced this change I was mad, but not really shocked due
to the IBM bit. We're still weighing options...

You know, I'm surpised so many people didn't see it coming as soon as Red
Hat Aquired it, I figured they'd shut it down... I mean Red Hat is there buiness.

CentOS is Red Hat recompiled to remove the branding... and made free...
RedHat would be like here you can buy our linux, or have it for free
without the pretty hat icons.

Yeah. Nah.

Andrew


--- Talisman v0.8-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: HappyLand v2.0 - telnet://happyland.zapto.org:11892/ (21:1/182)

Joacim wrote (2020-12-29):

Why move to FreeBSD? I like this platform a lot. I like BSD a lot - it's simpler, cleaner, no SystemD and thereis only ONE FreeBSD, not like Linux with 200+ different distributions (to each his own but I'm tired of it).

Instead of distributions they do a hard fork in BSD land and create another BSD OS: NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonflyBSD.

Instead of Systemd where it's easy to create and understand a .service file, they still use an old-school init system where it is an art to hand craft init files.

Yes, too many distributions with different package formats and dependencies suck, systemd is a waste of resources for small containers/VMs, snapd sucks, Linus / Linux kernel developers and the ZFS mess sucks, ... but would I really have less problems with FreeBSD? At least there is still the GUI mess in *nix land and BSDs have no solution to that.

I find computer technology more and more frustrating (including the internet). Everything more diverse, more limited, more inconsistent, more annoying, more bloated, ... Tomorrow is the last day of the Flash player...

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

Hello Joacim!

On 29 Dec 2020, Joacim Melin said the following...

component not only has been deprecated (but is still required by
Mastodon) but also does not support FreeBSD. A bit frustrating to say
the least.

Hmm, not good...

it's simpler, cleaner, no SystemD and thereis only ONE FreeBSD, not like Linux with 200+ different distributions (to each his own but I'm tired

Hmm, yes, that might make a lot of things easier. I also question the need for all those hundreds of distros...

It'll be interesting to see what happens with regard to Centos and "replacements", I heard Rocky Linux could be a replacement, but there's always the question of maintainability over time...

We'll be facing this dilemma at work as some third-party packages are packaged for Centos 7, and we're running them on Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7. And the same problem for Centos 8/RHEL8 of course...

Best regards
Zip

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/12/04 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Star Collision BBS, Uppsala, Sweden (21:1/202)

Ahh yeah. So I found you. I'm actually back at 800 at the moment..
joined thegame, 24hrs for moves I see...

I like the option, if I am distracted by life I can come back to the move later. Also I need time to think, bullet/blitz/rapid I struggle with.

How do you normally play?

RenMas

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/12/04 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)

apam wrote to NuSkooler <=-

You know, I'm surpised so many people didn't see it coming as soon as
Red Hat Aquired it, I figured they'd shut it down... I mean Red Hat is there buiness.

I stopped using Red Hat when they stopped releasing F/OSS versions of
the (Red Hat-branded) OS, probably around Red Hat 5? :)

Haven't missed RPM since.


... Magnify the most difficult details
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Third to last day of 2020
By: Oli to Joacim Melin on Wed Dec 30 2020 11:20 am

Instead of Systemd where it's easy to create and understand a .service file, they still use an old-school init system where it is an art to hand craft in files.

OpenBSD "service" files are as easy as they get. Creating one can most often be accomplished by copying an existing one and replacing the name of the daemon.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Arelor around Wednesday, December 30th...

OpenBSD "service" files are as easy as they get. Creating one can most often be accomplished by copying an existing one and replacing the name of the daemon.

(Disclaimer again: I run FreeBSD on multiple systems)

Systemd service units are just a INI file, and you need like 3 lines to make one. You need a lot more coding and knowledge of magic variables for V style init.

For a *pure server* simple init scripts are nice, but for a desktop systemd is pretty slick.

If FreeBSD does move to the launchd-style init (ala OS X) Imma laugh though.





--

NuSkooler
Xibalba BBS @ xibalba.l33t.codes / 44510(telnet) 44511(ssh)
ENiGMA 1/2 BBS WHQ | Phenom | 67 | iMPURE | ACiDic

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.13.1)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

Am 30.12.20 schrieb NuSkooler@21:1/121 in FSX_GEN:

Hallo Nuskooler,

Systemd service units are just a INI file, and you need like 3 lines to
make one. You need a lot more coding and knowledge of magic variables for V style init.

Really?
The only important thing to know about SysV init scripts is that they will
be started with "start" as first parameter and stopped with "stop" as
first parameter.
All the rest is up to the person who writes the script.
There are no "magic variables" in there, at least not as a "must-have".
Some newer init variants use a comment part at the top for dependency resolving, but I think it is optional.

In systemd files, you have to know what variable you have to set to which option for something to work and some variables are even magically set if
you leave them out or set to some arbitrary value if you make a mistake -- and systemd won't tell you.
You don't even get an instant reply from a "systemctl" call if your
service has been started or not.

And if you use a fairly recent SysV init script eg. from Devuan/Debian
(the systems I know) as a template, you also only have to enter the
daemon's name in one variable and it will work.

For a *pure server* simple init scripts are nice, but for a desktop systemd is pretty slick.

Except that it is almost impossible to get a good overview *what* is
running *why* and *when*. Almost like on Windows...
And don't get me started on systemd-resolved...

Regards,
Anna

--- OpenXP 5.0.48
* Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)

poindexter FORTRAN wrote to apam <=-

apam wrote to NuSkooler <=-

You know, I'm surpised so many people didn't see it coming as soon as
Red Hat Aquired it, I figured they'd shut it down... I mean Red Hat is there buiness.

I stopped using Red Hat when they stopped releasing F/OSS versions of
the (Red Hat-branded) OS, probably around Red Hat 5? :)

Haven't missed RPM since.

I think Redhat 7 was the last one that was free. I think the first distro
I tried was Redhat 5.2 or something.

I do prefer RPM over debs though, just because it's so much easier to
make packages for.

Andrew

... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
--- MultiMail/FreeBSD v0.52


--- Talisman v0.8-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: HappyLand v2.0 - telnet://happyland.zapto.org:11892/ (21:1/182)

On Thursday, December 31st acn was heard saying...

Really? The only important thing to know about SysV init scripts is that they will be started with "start" as first parameter and stopped with "stop" as first parameter. All the rest is up to the person who writes the script. There are no "magic variables" in there, at least not as a "must-have". Some newer init variants use a comment part at the top for dependency resolving, but I think it is optional.

This is perhaps true in theory, but very much not so in practice. Given a FreeBSD rc.d script for example, you need to know of some well known (aka magic) names and how they work -- rc_load_config, run_rc_command, etc.



On Thursday, December 31st acn said...

In systemd files, you have to know what variable you have to set to which
option for something to work and some variables are even magically set

Huh? You don't use variables in systemd. I mean, you can set 'Environment=FOO=VAL' or 'EnvironmentFile=/path/to/somefile.env' but that's for the process you're running, not for systemd.

acn around Thursday, December 31st...

mistake -- and systemd won't tell you. You don't even get an instant reply from a "systemctl" call if your service has been started or not.

Actually if it fails to start it will tell you. 'systemctl status foo' can give you more if you really want.


acn around Thursday, December 31st...

And if you use a fairly recent SysV init script eg. from Devuan/Debian (the systems I know) as a template, you also only have to enter the daemon's name in one variable and it will work.

Right, because the rest is stuff people just cut & paste (as you indicate). It's like Autoconfig scripts that no one really understands.

On Thursday, December 31st acn was heard saying...

Except that it is almost impossible to get a good overview *what* is running *why* and *when*. Almost like on Windows... And don't get me started on systemd-resolved...

'systemctl status'. resolve can produce a flow chart which is nice, but with complex systems (e.g. desktops) it can still hurt your brain.

As for Windows: It's designed extremely well. Services are first class members not just PIDs wrapped in scripts. A service is registered and provides a set of APIs. 'sc' can tell you all you need to know from the CLI or use the GUI if that's your thing.

OS X launchd and the aformentioned FreeBSD option that is around gives daemons more of a "service" type functionality similar to Windows, systemd, etc.: You get better dependency management, event triggers, so on that are extremely useful on a desktop system that's expected to boot fast, react to events such as USB plugs, so on.

Again, I'm not a hater of any of these. I actively run FreeBSD/init, CentOS/systemd, ElementaryOS, and Windows. I've programmed for everyhing I've mentioned professionally. The hate is mind boggling to me -- especially systemd. Mostly just FUD.




--

NuSkooler
Xibalba BBS @ xibalba.l33t.codes / 44510(telnet) 44511(ssh)
ENiGMA 1/2 BBS WHQ | Phenom | 67 | iMPURE | ACiDic

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.12-beta (linux; x64; 12.13.1)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

On 29 Dec 2020 at 05:33a, Renagademaster pondered and said...

I got back into Chess about six months ago mainly due to lockdown. Then finally got a Netflix subscription for same reason and came across the Queens Gambit. I really enjoyed it and I can see its affect on friends, family and colleagues as more and more are taking up the game.

Yep I'm a couple of episodes away from finishing the limited series. I've
been watching it just one episode at a time/day as I'm not a binge watching type of guy :)

Do you play? I am on chess.com mostly but have an account on lichess.

I do play but not regularly but do enjoy it when I do. I'd say I'm somewhere between beginner and intermediate but don't rate myself as a strong or savvy player etc. I have not heard of lichess.

Wonder if there is a Chess door game!?!

I know! I think an inter-bbs door would be cool. We must have a bit of a look and if there is I will add it to fsx.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 29 Dec 2020 at 11:35a, Joacim Melin pondered and said...

Why move to FreeBSD? I like this platform a lot. I like BSD a lot -
it's simpler, cleaner, no SystemD and thereis only ONE FreeBSD, not like Linux with 200+ different distributions (to each his own but I'm tired
of it).

Also - CentOS is basically dead as we know it (CentOS 8 will be
deprecated earlier than expected and CentOS 7 will be supported until
2024 or something) and I want to move all my servers to this platform instead.

Interesting to hear about CentOS. I only recently built a system using that
OS but only because the software I wish to use for my LPFM station comes in a turn-key flavour packaged using that OS etc. So I figured why not? But now
I'm think 'hold up, wait a minute' :) I guess I'll end up having to change
the system over to a new OS in a year or so now :)

I have three servers left of ~50 virtual machines:

Matrix
Mastodon
Nextcloud

I have a few more physical machines and no virtual ones... I need to get with the program huh :)?

Not any of these three will be easy to move but I like a good challenge and will be on holiday for another 1,5 weeks so what the hell...

Sorry for rambling.

Not at all, ramble away, some of my posts are often rambles too.. I think it helps me to get thoughts down at times, or perhaps my fingers like the
keyboard workouts :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: Chess
By: Avon to Renagademaster on Fri Jan 01 2021 11:18 am

I know! I think an inter-bbs door would be cool. We must have a bit of a look and if there is I will add it to fsx.

I had (many years ago) a chess door on my RA BBS. If I remember right, and I may not, it used a CHESS echo area to share data with other BBS.

I don't remember now what that door was called but it seemed to work quite well. Once you made a move you had to wait for your opponent to take his/her turn, games could take a while to finish!

Ttyl :-),
Al

... No user-serviceable parts inside (or outside).
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Re: Re: Third to last day of 2020
By: Joacim Melin to Avon on Tue Dec 29 2020 11:35 am

Howdy

I have three servers left of ~50 virtual machines:
Matrix
Mastodon
Nextcloud

Not any of these three will be easy to move but I like a good challenge and will be on holiday for another 1,5 weeks so what
the hell...

So I have matrix and nextcloud in my environment and Ive moved them around quite a bit recently - without any trouble. (I upgraded from CentOS 7 to 8 - finally - then they re-announced the EOS of CentOS8 the next day - argh!)

I run mine in docker, and moving docker apps to different hosts is easy peasy... But I think you were wanting to go the FreeBSD route, so its probably not so easy peasy for you :(

...ëîåï

... I knew I was an unwanted baby. One of my bath toys were a toaster.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 12-31-20 22:56, apam wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I think Redhat 7 was the last one that was free. I think the first
distro I tried was Redhat 5.2 or something.

Actually, it was Red Hat 9. I used to run it 20 odd years ago.


... Living in a vacuum sucks.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Actually, it was Red Hat 9. I used to run it 20 odd years ago.

Ah, yes. Thankyou :)

Andrew

--- Talisman v0.8-dev (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: HappyLand v2.0 - telnet://happyland.zapto.org:11892/ (21:1/182)

I had (many years ago) a chess door on my RA BBS. If I remember right,
and I may not, it used a CHESS echo area to share data with other BBS.

Sounds interesting, if you know of or come across a BBS running this can let
us know :)

I don't remember now what that door was called but it seemed to work
quite well. Once you made a move you had to wait for your opponent to
take his/her turn, games could take a while to finish!

I don't mind the wait, I play 1d per move on chess.com so am used to it!

Cheers,
RenMas

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net (21:1/172)

Re: Re: Chess
By: Renagademaster to Al on Fri Jan 01 2021 08:31 am

Sounds interesting, if you know of or come across a BBS running this can let us know :)

I see a chess directory in my xtrn directory with a chess.js in it. I haven't tried it but I'll get into the docs and see if I can make it work. It is interbbs capable it looks like.

Ttyl :-),
Al

... Okay - right after this one we're BACK on TOPIC
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

On 01-01-21 18:17, apam wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Actually, it was Red Hat 9. I used to run it 20 odd years ago.

Ah, yes. Thankyou :)

Yeah the second incarnation of my IRLP node ran Red Hat 9. After that, they went to Fedora, CentOS and now Debian.


... "Aw, mom, you act like I'm not even wearing a bungee cord!"
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

I see a chess directory in my xtrn directory with a chess.js in it. I haven't tried it but I'll get into the docs and see if I can make it
work. It is interbbs capable it looks like.

That is really great Al! Hope it isn't too much work for you to get it
running.

RenMas

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net (21:1/172)

apam wrote to NuSkooler <=-

You know, I'm surpised so many people didn't see it coming as soon as
Red Hat Aquired it, I figured they'd shut it down... I mean Red Hat is
there buiness.

I stopped using Red Hat when they stopped releasing F/OSS versions of
the (Red Hat-branded) OS, probably around Red Hat 5? :)

Haven't missed RPM since.

Yeah the package management story on RHEL platforms is pretty funny. I ran Fedora for a long time on my laptop and it has rpm, yum and dnf for package management. One would suffice, really.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (21:2/130.0)