Fidonet is becoming dry in traffic, worse traffic than 1-2 years ago.
Fidonet is becoming dry in traffic, worse traffic than 1-2 years ago.
why do you think this is?
Less active folks in it?
On 05 Feb 2022 at 09:12p, Utopian Galt pondered and said...
Fidonet is becoming dry in traffic, worse traffic than 1-2 years ago.
why do you think this is?
Less active folks in it?
Fidonet is becoming dry in traffic, worse traffic than 1-2 years ago.
Fidonet is becoming dry in traffic, worse traffic than 1-
2 years ago.
I thought it couldn't get any worse but with the ever
current management of Fidonet this is to be expected I
suppose.
Hello Joacim Melin!
** On Monday 07.02.22 - 09:55, Joacim Melin wrote to Utopian Galt:
Fidonet is becoming dry in traffic, worse traffic than 1-
2 years ago.
I thought it couldn't get any worse but with the ever
current management of Fidonet this is to be expected I
suppose.
What is "the management"? The NL is just a connections
directory; everyone/anyone is free to participate.
Echos are
what you make of them. If an echo is "dry" then post something
of interest or something to kick-start a conversation.
What is "the management"? The NL is just a connections
directory; everyone/anyone is free to participate.
The "management" still thinks "regions" (aka countries) are
the way to organize the connections directory. The nodes
are too lame to do anything about the stupid people on top
or their useless non-democratic policy. The lower
management also elects the incompetent to document
technical standards (aka doing nothing).
Echos are what you make of them. If an echo is "dry" then
post something of interest or something to kick-start a
conversation.
And some asshole will show up eventually (most likely of
the right-wing nutcase variety). Or the moderator getting a
hard-on by trying to enforce the "rules" when it's
completely unnecessary.
The "management" still thinks "regions" (aka countries) are the way to organize the connections directory.
The nodes are too lame to do anything about the stupid people on top or their useless non-democratic policy.
The lower management also elects the incompetent to document technical standards (aka doing nothing).
Echos are what you make of them. If an echo is "dry" then post something
of interest or something to kick-start a conversation.
And some asshole will show up eventually (most likely of the right-wing nutcase variety). Or the moderator getting a hard-on by trying to enforce the "rules" when it's completely unnecessary.
The "management" still thinks "regions" (aka countries) are the way to organize the connections directory. The nodes are too lame to do anything about the stupid people on top or their useless non-democratic policy. The
And some asshole will show up eventually (most likely of the right-wing nutcase variety). Or the moderator getting a hard-on by trying to enforce th "rules" when it's completely unnecessary.
Notice a pattern here? You sure have a lot of opinions... baseless ones you can never back up.... I believe the term for that is "trolling".
Atreyu wrote to Oli <=-th
The "management" still thinks "regions" (aka countries) are the way to organize the connections directory. The nodes are too lame to do anything about the stupid people on top or their useless non-democratic policy. The
In the summer of 2018 I was voted ZC1 by a landslide by Z1 Sysops
in an open, well-organized election every step of the way. Votes
were counted by an impartial person. A period to contest the
results was offered. But to you, that is not a democratic
process.
The day of my listing at 1:1/0 I had fixed a huge mess left
behind by my predecessor... the one you were smooching up to in a
certain echo, who could do "no wrong". That is where you began
your first round of insults my way because I politely asked you
to explain your vague "GoT-fuckups" remark.
Of all the times I politely remind you that you are welcome to
prove my incompetence as ZC1 every step of the way... you won't.
Because you can't.
I only process what the RC's give me. If I do my job as-is with
some of the deadwood submitted, you're quick to call me lazy. The
moment I toss out RC's or overrule segments you're quick to call
me a dictator.
My role is to produce that silly nodelist. A silly textfile that
you claim is produced by incompetent non-democratic Napoleons but
you would be the first to scream murder the moment it is not
produced like clockwork.
The day I fail my job as ZC1 I'll be given the boot by Z1 Sysops.
And you'll be quick to say good riddance, he was always
incompetent.
Notice a pattern here? You sure have a lot of opinions...
baseless ones you can never back up.... I believe the term for
that is "trolling".
Trolling, I notice, you can dish out but can't take in return,
when confronted by a slew of Trump supporters in Fsx you had
quite the little effeminate meltdown, whining petulently if
something can be done about them.
Now before you or Avon complain that I'm flaming you - I'm not.
I'm being *factual* with a positive solution offered for everyone
reading this........
And some asshole will show up eventually (most likely of the right-wing nutcase variety). Or the moderator getting a hard-on by trying to enforce
"rules" when it's completely unnecessary.
... The solution being to start your own echo... maybe start your
own net.
Be the little undisputed subject-matter-expert you wish to be and
enforce your own set of rules, set what software can be used, who
can join your special club and who can't. Refuse those
"right-wing nutcases" from joining.
You get to have a power trip all you want... while we enjoy less
of you here.
Win win for everyone. And about Fido... if a silly net causes
such emotionally challenging feelings, you could always
quit/retire your nodelisting.
Atreyu wrote to Oli <=-
On 07 Feb 22 19:07:59, Oli said the following to Ogg:
And some asshole will show up eventually (most likely of the right-wing nutcase variety). Or the moderator getting a hard-on by trying to enforce th
"rules" when it's completely unnecessary.
Win win for everyone. And about Fido... if a silly net causes such emotionally challenging feelings, you could always quit/retire your nodelisting.
The people with complaints like his are usually the ones causing the problems, i.e. the a-hole who causes the moderator to have to try to enforce the rules.
I've actually made some very good friends in Fido... friendships are what its about for me, not necessarily the tech. Yeah its fun sometimes to
sit and just watch the mailer toss packets, kindof like guys who are
into model trains and can just sit and watch them run. But its fun to
use some old tech to make friends that by every logical reasoning should've been dead long ago... I reply to at least several Netmails a week. Shootin' the shit.
I never really did much messaging on BBS's back in the 90s, and my encounter with social media wasn't fulfilling or pleasant. I did meet a few randoms o MS Messenger somehow, but I've found the 'older tech', such as IRC still is the better place to chat and get to know people online.
I daresay that the acidic personalities of some of the still-active
folks in there may be contributing, as well...
To each his own I guess. Never got into social media either; my life is definately not interesting enough to share with countless strangers.
My only experience with IRC was at this girl's place a long time ago
where she emancipated herself from her parents. She ended up renting a huge house with no posessions... except for a bed, a dining room table, and a Technics stereo system hooked up to a PC that was downloading
things called "MP3's" from various channels she was on. Thats all she
did, day and night. MP3's on IRC.
I miss MSN messenger but every time I signed on, constant "do do DO!" alerts drove me nuts. I had a huge list of MSN contacts that there was *always* a round of convo to be had the moment it loaded up. Eventually it all died...
Atreyu wrote to Blue White <=-
I've actually made some very good friends in Fido... friendships are
what its about for me, not necessarily the tech. Yeah its fun sometimes
I never used IRC that much until quite recently actually. Only a few channels, but there are regulars there so you get to know people and
what they are like.
It did get annoying to have to respond to an e-mail, then get an SMS and at the same time get a messenger notification. I used aMSN,
which might have had different sounds? I can't remember now but I still have all the chat logs from pretty much every conversation.
The modern equivalents are Slack and Discord. Generally, Slack for the corporate world and Discord for (mostly) gaming and casual chat. I'd say that Discord is the new IRC in that regard, and combines it with video streaming and voice chat -- a pretty impressive package.
The PING lives on ;)
On 07 Feb 22 19:07:59, Oli said the following to Ogg:
The "management" still thinks "regions" (aka countries) are the way to
organize the connections directory. The nodes are too lame to do
anything about the stupid people on top or their useless
non-democratic policy. The
In the summer of 2018 I was voted ZC1 by a landslide by Z1 Sysops in an open, well-organized election every step of the way. Votes were counted by an impartial person. A period to contest the results was offered. But to you, that is not a democratic process.
The day of my listing at 1:1/0 I had fixed a huge mess left behind by my predecessor...
How did it come that a new ZC was elected?
Who did decide which sysops (nodes?) were eligible to vote?
How long is your term?
Who decides when the next election will be?
Of course the ZC has now to tell everyone what a great guy he is (again) and how the other C was shit ... It's part of the job description.
But I appreciate it that it was so easy to waste your time.
The "management" still thinks "regions" (aka countries) are the way to
organize the connections directory.
Your not talking about fidonet, are you.. ;)
The nodes are too lame to do anything about the stupid people on top or
their useless non-democratic policy.
Fidonet is not and never was a democracy. It is an anarchy of sorts. As long as it is a cooperative anarchy it can work.
Most nodes don't care to get into the politics of fidonet and as long as the mail flows that's good enough. Just leave the politics to the politicians and there are enough of them to make noise.
The lower management also elects the incompetent to document technical
standards (aka doing nothing).
We can only elect those who choose to run.
It was once meant as cooperative anarchy, but it didn't last long. Also anarchy doesn't exclude democratic principles. What I mean with non-democratic is the for example the idea that a ZC appoints the RCs
and the RCs select the ZC. I don't know how you call it, but it is
neither democracy nor anarchism.
Fidonet seems to be more guided by the Peter principle. Somehow most of the time the management consists of people who are not fit for the job, show toxic behavior or both.
I still wonder what the end game for Fidonet is.
I'm not fond of Discord at all, proprietary and it seems they can decide which communities to shut down. Not where we should be heading.
Fidonet seems to be more guided by the Peter principle. Somehow most of the time the management consists of people who are not fit for the job, show tox behavior or both.
On 09 Feb 2022, boraxman said the following...
I'm not fond of Discord at all, proprietary and it seems they can decide which
communities to shut down. Not where we should be heading.
I despise Discord. I used to use it for some career-related stuff (infosec, making
electronics, etc) and OSINT gathering. There was a Discord server, I think it was
Underground" that was tracking the George Floyd riots. No real commentary, just "t
building is on fire in this city" and "there's a protest moving up this street in t
city" kind of stuff.
Discord decided that this violated the TOS and not only killed the server, but
DISABLED EVERY ACCOUNT ON IT. I was summarily kicked out of a bunch of communities
was a part of with no right of appeal (I fought with their customer service for ove
month). Just another reason to stick with open platforms and/or separate your
personas.
GreenLFC â•‘ e> greenleaderfanclub@protonmail.com
Infosec / Ham / Retro â•‘ masto> greenleaderfanclub@distrotoot
Avoids Politics on BBS â•‘ gem> gemini.greenleader.xyz
On 08 Feb 22 13:24:10, Oli said the following to Atreyu:[...]
How did it come that a new ZC was elected?
Who did decide which sysops (nodes?) were eligible to vote?
How long is your term?
Who decides when the next election will be?
Janis had issues with her system and family/health, and stepped down. She called for an election immediately to find her replacement. Initially it was myself, Dallas Hinton and lowercase-Mark Lewis that were nominated by others but Mark chose not to accept. Janis appointed Phil Kimble as the bean-counter and all Z1 Sysops were eligible to vote by sending him
direct Netmail with their choice of vote along with an arbitrary codeword for verification.
Z1 Sysops determine whether or not I'm doing a good job, they determine
the length of my stay and determine whenever the next election will be.
And about Fido... if a silly net causes such
emotionally challenging feelings, you could always quit/retire your nodelisting.
On 08 Feb 22 14:52:14, Oli said the following to Al:
Fidonet seems to be more guided by the Peter principle. Somehow most of time the management consists of people who are not fit for the job, sho behavior or both.
Look at it this way - The Fido "management" you deem not fit for the job, allows you to freely behave like an insufferable socialist jackass
without threat of a feed-cut or loss of a node number.
Z1 Sysops determine whether or not I'm doing a good job, they determine
the length of my stay and determine whenever the next election will be.
But how does this decision get made? Will there be an election when one node asks for it? Is there a vote for if and when the next election will be?
Maybe someone has a better explanation why certain people who have no proble insulting others while boasting about their own superiority becoming ZCs.
And about Fido... if a silly net causes such
emotionally challenging feelings, you could always quit/retire your nodelisting.
a) I'm not sure that I'm the emotional one here.
It seems you've just made his point for him.
Q: Why is Fidonet so vicious?
A: Because the stakes are so low.
It seems you've just made his point for him.
Q: Why is Fidonet so vicious?
A: Because the stakes are so low.
While we don't talk a lot, I consider you a friend. When I was down and
out you gave me a computer to keep the BBS running. We've also had a few good phone chats over the years.
Plus for a dictator in all the years you've been my HUB you never once issued a feed cut even when asked to. ;)
I never used IRC that much until quite recently actually. Only a few channels, but there are regulars there so you get to know people and what th are like.
It did get annoying to have to respond to an e-mail, then get an SMS and at the same time get a messenger notification. I used aMSN, which might have h different sounds? I can't remember now but I still have all the chat logs from pretty much every conversation.
Q: Why is Fidonet so vicious?
A: Because the stakes are so low.
I've just returned to FidoNet for the first time since... well, a very long time, and the sorts of viciousness I'm observing is a bit
disturbing, to be honest.
You have a direct offer from me to join Z1 as a node and judge for yourself. Nobody cares about the things you do, everyone is just happy to get the mail.
Its amusing to me that you like to blabber on and insult me while the host-system of your point address has enjoyed a direct connection with my system for quite some time... and is very smiley-polite whenever he wants something. And oh how he just can't wait to grab new ZC1 echoes I conjure up.---
So every time he polls here, you are by close association, kissing my ass. I get my ass kissed from a few others such as yourself but theres something very special to me about having your host directly supplying you my ass to kiss.
And he polls here several times a day...
A much more funny meme is you attempting to insult me from behind an alias and point-address while your host polls here like clockwork and routinely kisses my hairy rear keister whenever he wants something from me or whenever I create another zone-specific fantasy echo just to see how fast he tries to Areafix it. And believe me... he acts *quick* on the zone stuff.er.
It would be funny if your host goes down, you suddenly will vanish with him; just like the pair of Lee/Bjorn personalities vanish together.
The nodes are too lame to do anything about the stupid people on top or
their useless non-democratic policy.
Fidonet is not and never was a democracy. It is an anarchy of sorts. As
long as it is a cooperative anarchy it can work.
It was once meant as cooperative anarchy, but it didn't last long. Also anarchy doesn't exclude democratic principles. What I mean with non-democratic is the for example the idea that a ZC appoints the RCs and
the RCs select the ZC. I don't know how you call it, but it is neither democracy nor anarchism.
Fidonet seems to be more guided by the Peter principle. Somehow most of the time the management consists of people who are not fit for the job, show toxic behavior or both.
Most nodes don't care to get into the politics of fidonet and as long as
the mail flows that's good enough. Just leave the politics to the
politicians and there are enough of them to make noise.
That is too simple. Politics and power did disrupt the flow of mails for parts of the network (see Fido Classic in R24)
Unfortunately most nodes are not interested in their network. They are
often not even interested in conversations. Many just still hang around
until they (or their machine) drop dead.
I still wonder what the end game for Fidonet is.
We can only elect those who choose to run.
A "No" / "Against" vote is possible. There is no need to elect someone who is unable or unwilling to do anything useful.
You have a direct offer from me to join Z1 as a node and judge for yourself. Nobody cares about the things you do, everyone is just happy to get the mail.
Okay. That settles it, geographic regions are done.
And thanks, but no thanks. There are nicer asses than yours to kiss.
Best of ZC1 preview:
I despise Discord. I used to use it for some career-related stuff (infosec, making, electronics, etc) and OSINT gathering. There was a Discord server, I think it was "S2 Underground" that was tracking the George Floyd riots. No real commentary, just "this building is on fire
in this city" and "there's a protest moving up this street in this city" kind of stuff.
Discord decided that this violated the TOS and not only killed the
server, but DISABLED EVERY ACCOUNT ON IT. I was summarily kicked out of
a bunch of communities I was a part of with no right of appeal (I fought with their customer service for over a month). Just another reason to stick with open platforms and/or separate your personas.
get to mediate everything we do and say. It is the antithesis of what
the free internet is supposed to be about.
Needless to say, I don't use Discord, won't use it. Being able to
insert GIF's isn't worth the price.
Warpslide wrote to All <=-
The Simpsons - Treehouse of Horror VI - October 29, 1995
After the opening sequence, the first feature is "Attack of the 50 Foot Eyesores". In this episode, due to a freak storm, Lard Lad and other giant advertising figures come to life to terrorize Springfield.
Mewcenary wrote to tenser <=-
I've just returned to FidoNet for the first time since... well, a very long time, and the sorts of viciousness I'm observing is a bit
disturbing, to be honest.
Atreyu wrote to Oli <=-
Bjorn Felten and his sock-puppet Lee Lofaso
A lot of new "tech" is really just consolidating power and monetizing human interaction. People are sleepwalking into a dystopia by allowing
a situation to emerge where a certain class of people in Silicon Valley get to mediate everything we do and say. It is the antithesis of what
the free internet is supposed to be about.
While we don't talk a lot, I consider you a friend. When I was down and out you gave me a computer to keep the BBS running. We've also had a few good phone chats over the years.
I've met quite a few people in fido over the years, and granted I only really participate in the cooking echo now, I'm no where close to giving it up.
Plus for a dictator in all the years you've been my HUB you never once issued a feed cut even when asked to. ;)
Plus for a dictator in all the years you've been my HUB you never once issued a feed cut even when asked to. ;)
Look at it this way - The Fido "management" you deem not fit for the job, allows you to freely behave like an insufferable socialist jackass without threat of a feed-cut or loss of a node number.
On 02-08-22 11:15, Mewcenary wrote to boraxman <=-
The modern equivalents are Slack and Discord. Generally, Slack for the corporate world and Discord for (mostly) gaming and casual chat. I'd
say that Discord is the new IRC in that regard, and combines it with
video streaming and voice chat -- a pretty impressive package.
On 02-09-22 01:25, boraxman wrote to Mewcenary <=-
I'm not fond of Discord at all, proprietary and it seems they can
decide which communities to shut down. Not where we should be heading.
Stay out of the Sysop echos, and the political echos, and you should be just fine... unless you have a local NC who is nuts. I am not sure there are any more of those left but there could be.
What's depressing about this is you don't even have to think in terms of principle for this to be troubling. What you have to realize is any of these private companies can either tank financially, taking tons of communities down with them, or shutter a service suddenly if it makes financial sense to do so.
Yahoo Groups ("free" Yahoo-hosted mailing lists) is a perfect example. Took two of my lists with it. I mean, my fault for hosting them there
and all but the "too bad, bye suckers!" ending was depressing.
This is a big issue with Discord beyond their censorship/surveillance policies. It's like building on unstable ground.
I don't actually dislike the Discord client; it works fine as far as it goes. But it is centralized. (Matrix is a much preferable alternative;
I am surprised how well it works as a more open alternative.)
I agree with the principle of an open Internet. I've been an EFF member for decades, and there is definitely some emotion involved when it comes to wanting a less centralized Internet.
But I am surprised so many people risk the long-term health of their communities by trusting a corporation to keep those communities running forever even if they don't care about surveillance/data collection/whatever euphemism you want to use. Not to mention potential censorship should someone run afoul of public sentiment such that a mob forms against their financial interests.
Atreyu wrote to Tiny <=-
I'm still dead serious about a Sysop gathering... too bad Netsurge is "gone".
Echicken said he was interested but last I heard he was having a kid or something.
Lol, I can't really remember what it was over. Something stupid no
doubt.
Weatherman wrote to Tiny <=-
Atreyu should take over running Twitter. They have a nice history of
feed cuts and I believe have an opening for a CEO. :)
Weatherman wrote to Atreyu <=-
Look at it this way - The Fido "management" you deem not fit for the job, allows you to freely behave like an insufferable socialist jackass without threat of a feed-cut or loss of a node number.
So very true. As refreshing as it would be to cut the feed from all
the socialist noise over there, that doesn't stand for freedom which I hold at a much higher level.
Weatherman wrote to Atreyu <=-
Look at it this way - The Fido "management" you deem not fit for the
job, allows you to freely behave like an insufferable socialist
jackass without threat of a feed-cut or loss of a node number.
So very true. As refreshing as it would be to cut the feed from all
the socialist noise over there, that doesn't stand for freedom
which I hold at a much higher level.
+ 1
I doubt anyone would miss the garbage that is created by the dumpster softwa that are more often used in Z1 than elsewhere: no TZUTC, missing REPLY kludg
On 10 Feb 22 10:39:56, Oli said the following to Blue White:
I doubt anyone would miss the garbage that is created by the dumpster
softwa that are more often used in Z1 than elsewhere: no TZUTC,
missing REPLY kludg
When one resorts to petulent whining over kludges, one has lost the argument.
When one resorts to petulent whining over kludges, one has lost the argument.
Don't bore us to death with another boiler plate reply. You can do better:
Oli wrote to Blue White <=-
Please, do disconnect from the "socialists" "over there". That would
keep the flow of toxic shit in Z1.
LOL That would be good. Although twitter folk take it way too serious anyway. I don't have an account there anymore.
When one resorts to petulent whining over kludges, one has lost the argument.
I've just returned to FidoNet for the first time since... well, a ver long time, and the sorts of viciousness I'm observing is a bit disturbing, to be honest.
I really can't think of any redeeming qualities. If there
were interesting technical content, maybe. But generally
speaking, there isn't. It seems to mostly be people with
long-standing grievances against one another airing those
grievances. What's the point? Life is too short for that
kind of thing.
I was able to reply just fine.. I see no issue.
Wait, so you are in Zone 1? I was not aware. Otherwise, the toxic stuff with the name calling and asking people to do things to themselves that are physically impossible is likely flowing in whatever Zone you are writing messages from.
When one resorts to petulent whining over kludges, one has lost the argument.
I was able to reply just fine.. I see no issue.
I've just returned to FidoNet for the first time since... well,
a ver long time, and the sorts of viciousness I'm observing is a
bit disturbing, to be honest.
were interesting technical content, maybe. But generally
speaking, there isn't. It seems to mostly be people with
long-standing grievances against one another airing those
grievances. What's the point? Life is too short for that
Echomail may be one of the earliest examples of keyboard warriors, not a great thing IMHO.
Sure feels like people romanticize the BBS/FTN word of the 80s and 90s.
I can't recall a time when people weren't antisocial dicks to each other... Some intentional, some socially inept. The only difference now
is there are fewer people, fewer messages, and *way* too much Lofaso.
America on a regular basis or someone in Sweden really loves Andy Kaufman.
On 06 Feb 2022, Avon said the following...
On 05 Feb 2022 at 09:12p, Utopian Galt pondered and said...
Fidonet is becoming dry in traffic, worse traffic than 1-2 years
why do you think this is?
Less active folks in it?
I daresay that the acidic personalities of some of the still-active
folks in there may be contributing, as well...
McDoob
SysOp, PiBBS
pibbs.sytes.net
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)
Every so often I get a Sysop who gets nostalgic for their old board and restores it from old floppies or backup... so the guy goes and does that, gets a Fido feed, posts a test in the logically-correct Fidotest area.
Then gets immediately flamed by the effeminate Kludge Police residing in
the Netherlands. Gets told to stop using "crap software" and other lovely compliments. You never see that level of banality anywhere else. Not even from Russia and those dudes make up a huge part of Fido... the guys that invented BinkD and Tetris and fun with distilled potatos.
Remember when From and To had ALL UPPERCASE NAMES? :)
That said echomail can also bring folks together and engender some great chats and friendships so on that count, my glass is more than half full
:)
that invented BinkD and Tetris and fun with distilled potatos.
I think I mostly agree with you. FSXNet can be fun! FidoNet, though...Well, it may be best to let that particular network fade
into the sunset with whatever dignity it can still muster.
The other problem with FidoNet is the requirement to use
your real name, for discussion which becomes globally
accessible. No thanks!
I'm sure they don't really care too much if its an alias,
but then, if that is the case, they shouldn't care at all
what someone calls themselves.
I think I mostly agree with you. FSXNet can be fun! FidoNet, though...Well, it may be best to let that particular network fade
into the sunset with whatever dignity it can still muster.
The other problem with FidoNet is the requirement to use your real name, for discussion which becomes globally accessible. No thanks!
The other problem with FidoNet is the requirement to use your real name, for discussion which becomes globally accessible. No thanks!
I'm sure they don't really care too much if its an alias, but then, if that is the case, they shouldn't care at all what someone calls themselves.
Real Name has a broad definition. A real-sounding name seems to
be good enough.
In the case when one-word alias is used, often it is
satisfactory to announce one's "real name" in the signature.
Fidonet echos aren't really that much more strictive than the heavy-handed control that an othernet can impose. ;)
There's a big difference between a real-sounding name and a
handle.
One type has their personality 'stuck' in the days of BBSing. They embraced it at the time as cutting edge, did great things. However,
they never moved on. They've become bitter and view any newer technologies or approaches with suspicion. They never took their
passion for new technologies forward much. These are the 'Old man
yells at cloud' types I see pop up in some FidoNet episodes.
The other type have moved forward, have done great things with wider Internet technologies over time. And they enjoy BBSing for what it is: You can still do cool things with it, perhaps even push the boundaries
in some ways.
Atreyu wrote to Weatherman <=-
Remember when From and To had ALL UPPERCASE NAMES? :)
Andre wrote to Avon <=-
Sure feels like people romanticize the BBS/FTN word of the 80s and 90s.
I can't recall a time when people weren't antisocial dicks to each other... Some intentional, some socially inept. The only difference now
is there are fewer people, fewer messages, and *way* too much Lofaso.
McDoob wrote to Andre <=-
other... Some intentional, some socially inept. The only difference now
is there are fewer people, fewer messages, and *way* too much Lofaso.
For the record: *way* too much [insert name here].
Weatherman wrote to Atreyu <=-
Back when I started running a BBS in the early 80s, it was on an Apple
//c that didn't have an internal clock. My messages on the BBS had no date or time until eventually there was an external clock option for
the //c. I bought that just so I could get time/dates on the BBS messages.
Ogg wrote to boraxman <=-
The other problem with FidoNet is the requirement to use
your real name, for discussion which becomes globally
accessible. No thanks!
Real Name has a broad definition. A real-sounding name seems to
be good enough.
Mewcenary wrote to tenser <=-
The other type have moved forward, have done great things with wider Internet technologies over time. And they enjoy BBSing for what it is: You can still do cool things with it, perhaps even push the boundaries
in some ways.
Atreyu wrote to Boraxman <=-
Not all echoes require real names...
@TZUTC: -0800
@MSGID: 53441.fsx_gen@21:4/122 2670bf25
@REPLY: 21:1/176 9CAE6112
@PID: Synchronet 3.19a-Win32 master/b81540481 May 18 2021 MSC 1928
@TID: SBBSecho 3.14-Win32 master/b81540481 May 18 2021 MSC 1928
@BBSID: REALITY
@CHRS: ASCII 1
Atreyu wrote to Boraxman <=-
Not all echoes require real names...
I should know this, isn't there a real name requirement to receive a node number?
Given that this message will make it from the California coast to New Zealand in less than a day makes it all seem pretty nifty from here.
8-bit floppy-based BBSes - Amazing that they were a thing. GA Ellsworth ran Pure Nihilism, and later Cool Beans! BBS on an Apple // and had people calling *after* he moved from the midwest to San Francisco. Back when LD charges were a thing.
I think he had a clock, and lower case support. I do remember how odd it looked in 40 columns on Procomm Plus.
(for those who don't follow country music, Waylon Jennings was a
prolific singer for 50 years and helped define the "outlaw country" genre. Shooter, his son, is a talented and successful musician in his
own right, as well as writes pretty killer online BBS doors.)
Every so often I get a Sysop who gets nostalgic for their old board and restores it from old floppies or backup... so the guy goes and does that, gets a Fido feed, posts a test in the logically-correct Fidotest area. Then gets immediately flamed by the effeminate Kludge Police residing in the Netherlands. Gets told to stop using "crap software" and other lovely compliments.
8-bit floppy-based BBSes - Amazing that they were a thing. GA Ellsworth
ran Pure Nihilism, and later Cool Beans! BBS on an Apple // and had
people calling *after* he moved from the midwest to San Francisco. Back when LD charges were a thing.
I think he had a clock, and lower case support. I do remember how odd it looked in 40 columns on Procomm Plus.
No kidding?!?! Never would have expected Waylon Jennings kid to be into BBS'!!
Atreyu wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-
But define "real name" .... I'm convinced that there are several if not many nodes worldwide with bogus names.
Bucko wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
minutes.. When I first put together the Image BBS (Commodore 64)
network back in 1990, it would take on average a week to get from NY to California, sometimes if I caught the right leg 3 days.. LOL Jeez..
The other problem with FidoNet is the requirement to use your real name, for discussion which becomes globally accessible. No thanks!
I'm sure they don't really care too much if its an alias, but then, if that is the case, they shouldn't care at all what someone calls themselves.
I feel there are two personality types when it comes to BBSing, and you can in some ways equate them to 'typical' FidoNet and fsxNet personalities.
But the newer Internet does suck. Social Media, tracking, doxxing, mandatory accounts and giving information to companies. This suspicion
is definitely warranted.
You're describing applications of the Internet, not the Internet
itself.
You're describing applications of the Internet, not the Internet itself.
Correct. The internet is not something you just dump something on, it's not a big truck. It's a series of tubes. And if you don't understand, those tubes can be filled, and if they're filled, when you put your message in, it gets in line. It's going to be delayed by anyone that
puts into that tube enormous amounts of material.
Check out Part 2 of the Back to the BBS documentary for an interview with Shooter:
I remember those days well; one night (at least) to get to my NEC, one
to the backbone, one to their NEC, and one night to them.
I have most of my links set to crashmail, now - good times.
Atreyu wrote to Weatherman <=-
Every so often I get a Sysop who gets nostalgic for their old board and restores it from old floppies or backup... so the guy goes and does
that, gets a Fido feed, posts a test in the logically-correct Fidotest area. Then gets immediately flamed by the effeminate Kludge Police residing in the Netherlands. Gets told to stop using "crap software"
and other lovely compliments. You never see that level of banality anywhere else. Not even from Russia and those dudes make up a huge part
of Fido... the guys that invented BinkD and Tetris and fun with
distilled potatos.
Remember when From and To had ALL UPPERCASE NAMES? :)
boraxman wrote to tenser <=-
I think I mostly agree with you. FSXNet can be fun! FidoNet, though...Well, it may be best to let that particular network fade
into the sunset with whatever dignity it can still muster.
The other problem with FidoNet is the requirement to use your real
name, for discussion which becomes globally accessible. No thanks!
I'm sure they don't really care too much if its an alias, but then, if that is the case, they shouldn't care at all what someone calls themselves.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Andre <=-
Andre wrote to Avon <=-
Sure feels like people romanticize the BBS/FTN word of the 80s and 90s.
I can't recall a time when people weren't antisocial dicks to each other... Some intentional, some socially inept. The only difference now
is there are fewer people, fewer messages, and *way* too much Lofaso.
There have been Lofasos as far back as I can remember. No offense to
the current incarnation, I find him entertaining, to say the least.
acn wrote to Atreyu <=-
Every so often I get a Sysop who gets nostalgic for their old board and restores it from old floppies or backup... so the guy goes and does that, gets a Fido feed, posts a test in the logically-correct Fidotest area. Then gets immediately flamed by the effeminate Kludge Police residing in the Netherlands. Gets told to stop using "crap software" and other lovely compliments.
That also happens in R24...
On 14 Feb 2022 at 09:31p, boraxman pondered and said...
But the newer Internet does suck. Social Media, tracking, doxxing, mandatory
accounts and giving information to companies. This suspicion
is definitely warranted.
You're describing applications of the Internet, not the Internet
itself. At this point, for all intents and purposes, BBSes and
their networks are also applications of the Internet. Indeed,
Fidonet has relied on the Internet for international distribution
for 30 years.
Fidonet is becoming dry in traffic, worse traffic than 1-2 years ago.
--- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
* Origin: inland utopia * socal usa * iutopia.mooo.com:2023 (21:4/108)
The Fido node fed echomail to the othernet hub, and the cost recoveryPlannet Connect made it a bit more democratic in the early days of net 218.
cabal
in our net threatened to yank both of his node numbers for trying to
skirt the cost recovery program in place.
But the newer Internet does suck. Social Media, tracking, doxxing, mandatory accounts and giving information to companies. This suspici is definitely warranted.
You're describing applications of the Internet, not the Internet
itself. At this point, for all intents and purposes, BBSes and
their networks are also applications of the Internet. Indeed,
Fidonet has relied on the Internet for international distribution
for 30 years.
I would be willing to drop those requirements in my echos, but (1) people tend to think that allowing aliases means they can act stupider, troll, etc., in the political echos, and (2) at least one of the FIDO sysops has adopted a sock-puppet and posts using both his real name and the fake one and likes to pretend that we all don't know it is him.
If I know who it is, and they are only posting under one name, I don't care as long as it is a real-sounding name (and not a name they have adopted only for use in my echos... see problem #1).
... Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
Give it a couple of years and the Internet will suck too.
Search engines are already gating what we get to see online. There is
some material
which is hard to find only because search engines will filter it.
Ipv6 is a poor substitute for ipv4, but the alternative is sticking with ipv4 and
losing end-to-end connectivity, which affects lots of services already.
It is getting
harder to run a hobby server or just a network reachable torrent node
due to the IP
shortage.
You put a hobby server online and russian bots start raping it, with the passion of a
gang of orcs who finds a Nymph tied to a tree in the forest. Place a captcha in front
of your site and they will hire a legion of 3rd worlders to break past
it and flood
you anyway. Then you place your site behind a content distribution
network in order to
be protected, and become a slave to them (and drag your users with you
at the same
time).
Every so often I get a Sysop who gets nostalgic for their old board and
restores it from old floppies or backup... so the guy goes and does that, A>> gets a Fido feed, posts a test in the logically-correct Fidotest area.
Then gets immediately flamed by the effeminate Kludge Police residing in A>> the Netherlands. Gets told to stop using "crap software" and other lovely A>> compliments.
That also happens in R24...
Where does that region cover?
Hence why politics is eschewed on fsxNet. Anonymous discussion is important given the social climate today. I'm sceptical of pushes to remove anonymity, it seems a push towards more oppression.
It seems like it'd be fairly easy to just create an account using
a plausible-sounding name that isn't yours. If you created an account
as, I dunno, "John Smith" would anyone notice or care? It's not
like sysops are doing "voice verification" anymore.
You're describing applications of the Internet, not the Internet
itself.
Correct. The internet is not something you just dump something on, it's not a big truck. It's a series of tubes. And if you don't understand, those tubes can be filled, and if they're filled, when you put your message in, it gets in line. It's going to be delayed by anyone that puts into that tube enormous amounts of material.
You're describing applications of the Internet, not the Internet itself. At this point, for all intents and purposes, BBSes and
their networks are also applications of the Internet. Indeed,
Fidonet has relied on the Internet for international distribution
for 30 years.
Give it a couple of years and the Internet will suck too.
Search engines are already gating what we get to see online. There is
some material
which is hard to find only because search engines will filter it.
Ipv6 is a poor substitute for ipv4,
You put a hobby server online and russian bots start raping it, with the passion of a
gang of orcs who finds a Nymph tied to a tree in the forest. Place a captcha in front
of your site and they will hire a legion of 3rd worlders to break past
it and flood
you anyway. Then you place your site behind a content distribution
network in order to
be protected, and become a slave to them (and drag your users with you
at the same
time).
But the newer Internet does suck. Social Media, tracking, doxxi mandatory accounts and giving information to companies. This su is definitely warranted.
You're describing applications of the Internet, not the Internet itself. At this point, for all intents and purposes, BBSes and
their networks are also applications of the Internet. Indeed, Fidonet has relied on the Internet for international distribution
for 30 years.
For many people, these apps are the Internet. Facebook have a deal in some poorer countries to provide free Internet, which is really making a deal with a carrier that they would load their phone so that people can use a few websites without data charges. For many of these people, they think Facebook is the Internet.
Ipv6 is a poor substitute for ipv4,
Why do you say that?
You put a hobby server online and russian bots start raping it, with th passion of a
gang of orcs who finds a Nymph tied to a tree in the forest. Place a captcha in front
of your site and they will hire a legion of 3rd worlders to break past it and flood
you anyway. Then you place your site behind a content distribution network in order to
be protected, and become a slave to them (and drag your users with you at the same
time).
Hmm. I have several machines on the Internet and don't seem
to suffer from these problems, colorful as the descriptions
are.
By: tenser to Arelor on Thu Feb 17 2022 11:38 am
You put a hobby server online and russian bots start raping it, wi passion of a
gang of orcs who finds a Nymph tied to a tree in the forest. Place captcha in front
of your site and they will hire a legion of 3rd worlders to break it and flood
you anyway. Then you place your site behind a content distribution network in order to
be protected, and become a slave to them (and drag your users with at the same
time).
This ipv6 deal reminds me of the UEFI standard.
you anyway. Then you place your site behind a content distribution
network in order to
be protected, and become a slave to them (and drag your users with you
at the same
time).
Hmm. I have several machines on the Internet and don't seem
to suffer from these problems, colorful as the descriptions
are.
Here, because of the smaller userbase, we recognize each other, for good or for worse, and this may be more central to the question of health of online communities than anything else (platform, software, the
corporation hosting it for profit through advertising, etc.)
The WELL is still up and running. They require real names, and a monthly subscription fee, but their interface is really old and bizarre (ahem), and there isn't much activity.
I think one of the problems is a lot of forums have had a problem
figuring out accountability; I think they swap in the real name thing in hopes it will lead to that.
I've always liked Slashdot's meta-moderation process, where you review another (unnamed) user's ratings of comments, and depending on whether people mark the ratings as appropriate or not, that person may be
offered more opportunities to moderate.
All of these processes have weaknesses or downsides. What seems to work best is something a lot of us are used to, small semi-closed systems. I have never equated technical competence with intelligence but if you
look at Usenet in the 80s, for example, people tended to behave. Not
that there weren't flame wars, but they were different than now.
I think one of the central issues is "bigness," in which it becomes difficult-to-impossible to moderate from the standpoint of weeding out true trolls and abusers. (Unfortunately this term "troll" is often
applied to abrasive contrarians, but to me a troll is someone who is
only interested in entertaining themselves by spreading discord and
chaos, and doesn't really mean anything they say -- I say this to differentiate it from ornery and cantankerous people who may mean what they say and aren't purposely trying to stir the pot just to laugh at
the results.)
There's another dynamic here. I mostly lurk on these BBS networks, but I recognize you, boraxman. I recognize your name, and in time am associating personality characteristics and opinions to you as you post them, and in this sense you are becoming a fully-formed human being in
my mental filing cabinet.
I find on large communities like reddit, people become faceless. The person disappears even if the post intrigues or enrages.....
Here, because of the smaller userbase, we recognize each other, for good or for worse, and this may be more central to the question of health of online communities than anything else (platform, software, the
corporation hosting it for profit through advertising, etc.)
I don't have it handy but we evolved to simply have a maximum capacity
for community, beyond which we cannot keep track of the people beyond
that number. And when that happens, maybe a subtle shift occurs whereby the normal courtesy we afford another slips away, because on a subconscious level we're not giving them the "human" form in our heads. They're just noise.
I wonder if this is fundamentally what a lot of us miss about BBSes.
ANSI graphics are fun. Doors are, too. But maybe "BBSness" has less to do with the form and medium and more to do with the size of the
community.
Not that this has stopped certain people on the much-derided Fidonet. I don't like posting there at all. I don't understand what the damage is over there, but I notice it like everyone else does -- in particular in how it contrasts to fsxNet. Fidonet isn't the only one.
I did some research recently. There are still something approaching 30 existing BBS networks, which, unless I'm wildly miscounting, is about one network fore every active BBS user (message poster, I mean).
Has anyone taken an informal count of how many people post on BBS
networks -- by which I mean, all of them? Because from what I can see,
30 may be a generous guess.
For many people, these apps are the Internet. Facebook have a deal i some poorer countries to provide free Internet, which is really makin deal with a carrier that they would load their phone so that people c use a few websites without data charges. For many of these people, t think Facebook is the Internet.
Ah, but we know better, do we not?
In addition, you are never a 'slave' to a CDN. They are one of the easiest things to migrate away from / to in any Enterprise web site deployment, and there is a lot of competition in the market.
Utopian Galt wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-
The Fido node fed echomail to the othernet hub, and the cost recovery cabal
in our net threatened to yank both of his node numbers for trying to
skirt the cost recovery program in place.
Plannet Connect made it a bit more democratic in the early days of net 218.
tenser wrote to Andre <=-
Well, no, that's not quite right either. The pipe analogy is not
bad, but is only part of it; in packet-switched systems, large
amounts of "material" are broken up into smaller packets that are
sent separately.
Re: Re: Notice that...
By: tenser to Arelor on Thu Feb 17 2022 11:38 am
Ipv6 is a poor substitute for ipv4,
Why do you say that?
I am then curious as to what your setups must be. My experience is that
if you set a webservice using a popular CMS, bots will start spamming it to death as soon as they discover it. Same thing with SMTP servers. Even if your server is clever enough to discard spammers on sight, the very
act of taking them and discarding them eats away a good chunk of
computing power.
Ah, yes. UEFI. What a terrible thing to do to a computer. *Every*
computer I own either does not have UEFI, or has it disabled...
In addition, you are never a 'slave' to a CDN. They are one of the easi things to migrate away from / to in any Enterprise web site deployment, and there is a lot of competition in the market.
Seriously. It's insanely easy to switch CDNs, and for small websites they ra from free to about $0.25 a month.
- Andre
The WELL is still up and running. They require real names, and a mon subscription fee, but their interface is really old and bizarre (ahem and there isn't much activity.
Is that a BBS or an other-net? Never heard of it.
Nick was quoting US Senator Ted Stevens, lobbying against net.neutrality
- very clearly not understanding that which he'd received money from telecom lobbyists to understand.
UEFI is terrible, but not for the reasons most people think.
UEFI is terrible, but not for the reasons most people think.
Agreed. Personally, I think it's terrible due to the fact that it can completely brick a computer if just the storage fails.
Agreed. Personally, I think it's terrible due to the fact that it can completely brick a computer if just the storage fails.
There's that. There's also this idea that tons of random
code runs before the OS even loads; "secure boot" is a cute
fiction with UEFI.
boraxman wrote to Blue White <=-
I would be willing to drop those requirements in my echos, but (1) people tend to think that allowing aliases means they can act stupider, troll, etc., in the political echos, and (2) at least one of the FIDO sysops has adopted a sock-puppet and posts using both his real name and the fake one and likes to pretend that we all don't know it is him.
If I know who it is, and they are only posting under one name, I don't care as long as it is a real-sounding name (and not a name they have adopted only for use in my echos... see problem #1).
Hence why politics is eschewed on fsxNet. Anonymous discussion is important given the social climate today. I'm sceptical of pushes to remove anonymity, it seems a push towards more oppression.
Nightfox wrote to tenser <=-
Months ago, I had a weird experience on FidoNet. I have FidoNet on my
BBS but I rarely read or post there. A user on my BBS had been posting
in a FidoNet echo, and someone replied to one of their posts but
changed the reply name to mine, so I got a notification that someone posted to me in that echo the next time I logged in. Apparenly they thought the user on my BBS was a troll and for whatever reason, they thought it might be me (the sysop) posting under a different account. Also, they said they thought my name might be made up (I use my real
name when posting on FidoNet) - they said they thought my last name
looked weird or something. I guess they didn't know people have
ancestors who were originally from other countries and last names can sometimes look a little different than what you're used to..
I agree and it is good that it is eschewed. The FIDO echo in question is the POLITICS echo, so it is difficult to eschew it there and my explanation above is why I would prefer not to allow aliases. Too many dumb-dumbs would abuse it and ruin it for the folks who are trying to remain anonymous for the reason you mention.
On 02-16-22 19:47, DustCouncil wrote to boraxman <=-
I don't have it handy but we evolved to simply have a maximum capacity
for community, beyond which we cannot keep track of the people beyond
that number. And when that happens, maybe a subtle shift occurs whereby the normal courtesy we afford another slips away, because on a subconscious level we're not giving them the "human" form in our heads.
They're just noise.
On 02-16-22 19:47, DustCouncil wrote to boraxman <=-
I wonder if this is fundamentally what a lot of us miss about BBSes.
ANSI graphics are fun. Doors are, too. But maybe "BBSness" has less
to do with the form and medium and more to do with the size of the community.
I think size does matter, and smaller is often better.
Has anyone taken an informal count of how many people post on BBS
networks -- by which I mean, all of them? Because from what I can see,
30 may be a generous guess.
On 16 Feb 2022, DustCouncil said the following...
Has anyone taken an informal count of how many people post on BBS networks -- by which I mean, all of them? Because from what I can se 30 may be a generous guess.
I have a list of all active networks (that I can find) and the total is
42 =) NuSkooler started the list off, and I have sort of adopted the maintainer role in it, making it look pretty and functional.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17pmf7cS9ocU99Rm6qlJD_OncqmbDI5Qj8Y bgVc/edit#gid=0
(reposting the link in case anyone wants to use it and either forgot or never knew it existed).
Maybe I'm paranoid, after all
On 02-16-22 19:47, DustCouncil wrote to boraxman <=-
I don't have it handy but we evolved to simply have a maximum capacity for community, beyond which we cannot keep track of the people beyond that number. And when that happens, maybe a subtle shift occurs whereb the normal courtesy we afford another slips away, because on a subconscious level we're not giving them the "human" form in our heads
They're just noise.
IIRC, that limit is around 150 people - more than adequate in a tribal society, but far short of the huge number of people one encounters today.
On 18 Feb 2022 at 06:45p, boraxman pondered and said...
Maybe I'm paranoid, after all
It's sort of strange that people who have these concerns think
they're being anonymous using the Internet at all.
I have a list of all active networks (that I can find) and the total is
42 =) NuSkooler started the list off, and I have sort of adopted the maintainer role in it, making it look pretty and functional.
boraxman wrote to Blue White <=-
Maybe I'm paranoid, after all, its not like I'm promoting fascism or anything, but when Adele gets blasted for saying she is proud to be a woman, well, there are too many crazies out there.
tenser wrote to boraxman <=-
On 18 Feb 2022 at 06:45p, boraxman pondered and said...
Maybe I'm paranoid, after all
It's sort of strange that people who have these concerns think
they're being anonymous using the Internet at all.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
On 02-18-22 07:11, Andre wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I think size does matter, and smaller is often better.
o_O
That's what she said?
On 02-18-22 13:05, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
IIRC, that limit is around 150 people - more than adequate in a tribal society, but far short of the huge number of people one encounters today.
One may encounter obscene ammounts of people (ie. my boss' customer
list is many thousand long) but that does not mean you have to interact
in a meaningful social way with all of them.
The fact you have to deal with 3000 people does not mean you need to become emotionally aware of them all.
I think size does matter, and smaller is often better.
o_O
That's what she said?
Haha, I knew someone would bite. ;)
tenser wrote to boraxman <=-
The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link. Stewart Brand's experiment with
building virtual communities based around computer conferencing. Originally a VAX running 4BSD, now an AWS instance running Linux,
but still using the Picospan conferencing software they started
with back in 1985. https://www.well.com/
boraxman wrote to Blue White <=-
Fair enough, but this is an era of McCarthy like suppression (likely worse), where people will google your name and if they don't like your politics, may decide against you because "you don't fit the company values".
In this day and age, I'm just not willing to give people who think they need to save the world by cutting out people with the wrong "values" a reason.
I have no issue with my politics, but you can't exactly explain
yourself when they trawl through the internet for your name. One hint that you're not converged could make the difference between you getting that next job or not.
Maybe I'm paranoid, after all, its not like I'm promoting fascism or anything, but when Adele gets blasted for saying she is proud to be a woman, well, there are too many crazies out there.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
Vk3jed wrote to DustCouncil <=-
IIRC, that limit is around 150 people - more than adequate in a tribal society, but far short of the huge number of people one encounters
today.
Not putting your name is far more anonymous than using it. I understand that effort could be used to track you, but you get a good deal of
privacy from many using handles.
boraxman wrote to Blue White <=-
Now, I've heard whispers of hiring managers and recruiters passing on candidates because they had *no* social network presence. Sounds like
we need to all have sanitized LinkedIn pages with a couple of work friends, or clean up those Facebook tagged images.
My wife works in HR, and has non-apocryphal stories of a prospective candidate with easily sought photos online in compromising positions.
Kids just don't understand.
<rant>
I keep reinforcing with my son that the social norms of his generation aren't the same as those of the people who are able to provide opportunities to him - future bosses, professors, etc.
I've told him to answer his phone, even if he doesn't know the number.
If I'm calling about a job, I'm not going to hang up and text him.
Leave a voice mail greeting recorded in your voice with your name in
it, and say "thanks for calling". When you leave a voicemail, leave
your number. Don't assume they'll just call you from their phone
screen. Any social network photos will be found by someone who's
looking to hire you from a pool of other qualified candidates.
</rant>
tenser wrote to boraxman <=-
On 19 Feb 2022 at 04:58p, boraxman pondered and said...
Not putting your name is far more anonymous than using it. I understand that effort could be used to track you, but you get a good deal of
privacy from many using handles.
Sure, your kid sister won't find you. But if what you're
concerned about are large corporations or nation states,
it's really little more than a speedbump, and a small one
at that.
I have heard this too, that no social media presense is looked on as a negative. I can see private companies scoring people now, and that score be used to evaluate people. Social Credit systems are soon to come here, and i will be privzte enterprise, not the state, bringing it in. I have no social media presence now, but I would rather not work for a company which saw that a negative. A luxury I can afford now, but later may prove to be very limiting.
I think about the same thing. If an employer decides not to employ me because
he cannot find out about my hobbies online, I am better off not working for
such employer.
I can see a future in which a candidate includes a link to his private software
repository, full of cool projects, and gets rejected anyway because he has no
Facebook account, with nobody checking the actual code that person writes.
I think about the same thing. If an employer decides not to employ me because he cannot find out about my hobbies online, I am better off not working for such employer.
I can see a future in which a candidate includes a link to his private software repository, full of cool projects, and gets rejected anyway because he has no Facebook account, with nobody checking the actual code that person writes.
It's not really about this when HR (or whoever) chcck online presence.
It's more a verification that the person is not completely toxic. So
that will be information that the candidate is _choosing_ to put out
there (typically on Twitter).
We're not talking about, "I like to write Doors for my BBS". We're talking about, "I am spending six hours of my day posting racist
comments on Twitter". That's understandably someone that a company may
not want to employ.
And it's not always down to HR. There have been high profile cases of
the candidate's future co-workers picking up on the new hire, and
flagging up that the person is a racist or misogynistic creep, who does not reflect the values of the company.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
It's not really about this when HR (or whoever) chcck online presence.
It's more a verification that the person is not completely toxic. So that w be information that the candidate is _choosing_ to put out there (typically Twitter).
Considering that so many people now view the company they run as being an ag for "good" social change, this wouldn't surprise me. The products and servi that many companies provide seems secondary to them being seen to be doing good.
boraxman wrote to tenser <=-
It stops HR. That alone is reason enough. It stops SJWs. It stops
other miscreants. It stops private enterprise. It probabaly stops
silicon valley.
That is more than good enough. You still lock your doors, even though
a dedicated government agency could still get in there, or a committed thief.
And it's not always down to HR. There have been high profile cases of
the candidate's future co-workers picking up on the new hire, and
flagging up that the person is a racist or misogynistic creep, who does
not reflect the values of the company.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
Seems pointless. I've worked with toxic, horrible people that HR absolutely LOVED. The kind that can put forward a good image, say the right words, agree wholeheartedly (at least make an appearance to) with
the companies values and their latest cultural crap. I've worked with people who are bossy, arrogant, incompetent, all people that HR missed flagging.
[...] I have no social media presence now, but I would
rather not work for a company which saw that a negative. A
luxury I can afford now, but later may prove to be very
limiting.
I think about the same thing. If an employer decides not to
employ me because he cannot find out about my hobbies
online, I am better off not working for such employer.
I can see a future in which a candidate includes a link to
his private software repository, full of cool projects, and
gets rejected anyway because he has no Facebook account,
with nobody checking the actual code that person writes.
I think about the same thing. If an employer decides not to
employ me because he cannot find out about my hobbies
online, I am better off not working for such employer.
Don't worry.. they could always ask you questions about that
during your interview. Then, if you seem evasive, or lying,
you'd probably never make the cut anyway.
Don't worry.. they could always ask you questions about
that during your interview. Then, if you seem evasive, or
lying, you'd probably never make the cut anyway.
I would not lie or be evasive. If they ask me about
anything political that is not in my CV I will point out
that the Spanish Constitution explicitly forbids to
preassure people into giving away their political opinions.
At which point they are at risk of being sued if they don t
hire you, because you can always argue the reason you were
not hired is because you didn t yield to anticonstitutional
practices.
We had to learn something from the muricans,
even if it is only Court Culture \o/ \o/
But frankly, if my political ideas are an issue for an
employer then I don t want to work for that employer.
On 02-19-22 11:16, McDoob wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I think size does matter, and smaller is often better.
o_O
That's what she said?
Haha, I knew someone would bite. ;)
And that's what HE said! (o_-)
On 02-18-22 06:49, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Vk3jed wrote to DustCouncil <=-
IIRC, that limit is around 150 people - more than adequate in a tribal society, but far short of the huge number of people one encounters
today.
Reminds me of working in start-up companies; the first time I saw a
group walking out to lunch whose names I didn't recognize I knew the company had turned a corner.
On 02-18-22 06:43, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to boraxman <=-
Now, I've heard whispers of hiring managers and recruiters passing on candidates because they had *no* social network presence. Sounds like
we need to all have sanitized LinkedIn pages with a couple of work friends, or clean up those Facebook tagged images.
My wife works in HR, and has non-apocryphal stories of a prospective candidate with easily sought photos online in compromising positions.
Kids just don't understand.
I've told him to answer his phone, even if he doesn't know the number.
If I'm calling about a job, I'm not going to hang up and text him.
Leave a voice mail greeting recorded in your voice with your name in
it, and say "thanks for calling". When you leave a voicemail, leave
your number. Don't assume they'll just call you from their phone
screen. Any social network photos will be found by someone who's
looking to hire you from a pool of other qualified candidates.
On 02-20-22 07:39, Mewcenary wrote to Arelor <=-
It's more a verification that the person is not completely toxic. So
that will be information that the candidate is _choosing_ to put out
there (typically on Twitter).
On 02-21-22 05:26, Dr. What wrote to boraxman <=-
But that's a little different. That's sort of like the old joke that
ends with "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to out run
you."
Sort of like in the early days where to get on line you either needed to be: 1. intelligent
or
2. nice - so one of those intelligent people helps you get on line.
It sort of weeded out the stupid jerks. Then AOL came along...
But that's a little different. That's sort of like the old joke that
ends with "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to out run you."
(for those who don't follow country music, Waylon Jennings was a prolific singer for 50 years and helped define the "outlaw country" genre.
Shooter, his son, is a talented and successful musician in his own right, as well as writes pretty killer online BBS doors.)
(for those who don't follow country music, Waylon Jennings was a prolific singer for 50 years and helped define the "outlaw country" genre.
Shooter, his son, is a talented and successful musician in his own right, as well as writes pretty killer online BBS doors.)
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