This is good, a server that you can control, but the interesting thing about the Fidonet network, is decentralisation. to a degree.
So what I'd like to do, is to know how to create your own FTN style network.
started. To maintain a nodelist, adminster it, get message areas set
up. Is it incredibly complex and out of the ability of a single
operator. I can't seem to find out how.
So what I'd like to do, is to know how to create your own FTN style network. I know how to join an existing one, but what about creating
your own "net". Say, "MemeNet".
Now people have made fsxNet, how would I do the same.
If
people could control it all from their end, on their hardware, it could
be a desirable trait.
So what I'd like to do, is to know how to create your own FTN style network. know how to join an existing one, but what about creating your own "net". Say, "MemeNet". What are the steps to get it up and started. To maintain a nodelist, adminster it, get message areas set up. Is it incredibly complex and out of the ability of a single operator. I can't seem to find out how.
On 01 Jan 2022, boraxman said the following...
This is good, a server that you can control, but the
interesting thing about the Fidonet network, is decentralisation. to a degree.
Yeah, to a degree. You'd need some redundancy built in, otherwise if the only hub goes down then nobody can get mail a la SciNet.
This is why fsxNet is awesome with all of the hubs meshing to each other.
So what I'd like to do, is to know how to create your own FTN
stylenetwork.
Really you just need to pick a zone number that isn't being used and then start signing up nodes. I think there was a google sheets document floating around there that was keeping track of the used zone numbers.
up. Is it incredibly complex and out of the ability of a single
operator. I can't seem to find out how.
Most use makenl to generate nodelists, but you don't absolutely *need* to use makenl, it can just be done in notepad if you like. Message areas are as simple as creating it on your board, setting it to your new network's address and exporting it to nodes who have joined your network.
I've created "fakenets" between several boards I was running at one point (mostly to gate DOVE-Net to legacy BBS software that doesn't support QWK) - Maybe to get a feel for it, setup another BBS and create a network between them and pass some messages back & forth.
You've come to the right place, sir! You're going to want to talk to Avon, 21:1/100. He's the creator of fsxNet.
Couldn't agree more! I want no part of the 'Meta'-verse!
On 01-01-22 18:23, boraxman wrote to All <=-
So what I'd like to do, is to know how to create your own FTN style network. I know how to join an existing one, but what about creating
your own "net". Say, "MemeNet". What are the steps to get it up and started. To maintain a nodelist, adminster it, get message areas set
up. Is it incredibly complex and out of the ability of a single
operator. I can't seem to find out how.
Any info?
So what I'd like to do, is to know how to create your own FTN style
network. I know how to join an existing one, but what about creating
your own "net". Say, "MemeNet". What are the steps to get it up and started. To maintain a nodelist, adminster it, get message areas set
up. Is it incredibly complex and out of the ability of a single
operator. I can't seem to find out how.
Nigel Reed wrote to boraxman <=-
On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 18:23:40 -0700
"boraxman" <boraxman@21:1/121> wrote:
So what I'd like to do, is to know how to create your own FTN style
network. I know how to join an existing one, but what about creating
your own "net". Say, "MemeNet". What are the steps to get it up and started. To maintain a nodelist, adminster it, get message areas set
up. Is it incredibly complex and out of the ability of a single
operator. I can't seem to find out how.
My advise. Don't. There's already 30+ dead networks and more popping up
to become dead networks every now and again.
When I decided to network HobbyNet, I used my phone number 954:895
It worked out well for me since 954 hadn't been used yet. Now I am
up to 39 nodes plus 2 hubs!
I'm glad I had assistance from knowledgeable people to help me along
the way. Without them, I cou;dn't have done it.
I created my own network for testing purposes. I picked a number I like and gave it a name (MEGAnet) that suits the net. I edited an existing nodelist to my needs, then created some areas (msg/file), configured the needed software and now three nodes are able to send stuff to each other and all of them are in the same room :) So, just do it for local fun, don't for general usage because we joined FSX already :>
Gtx! sPi
It's not hard, and a number of us here have done it. As others have said, the main parts are choosing an unused zone number and setting up your nodelist. For a simple network, MakeNL is way overkill (though I do use it), and Notepad will definitely do the job.
And some sort of TIC based file echo infrastructure will be handy for distributing nodelists and infopacks.
I've automated the nodelist generation and distribution, along with my infopack. I also run a DNS server for mailers like BinkD to do nodelist lookups via DNS. I use Mystic (with my own shell scripts) to run the file echos that I use for distribution.
If you do know how to handle the BBS and mailer software that you are using, it is not that hard to start your own FTN.
I've done this last year, when I started the WeedNet QWK<>FTN gateway, so I'm the FTN hub for this network (zone number 420 *g*).
I started by creating the echolist file for all echos and connecting the first other nodes (and points), a little later I learned how to use makenl for a very small nodelist. I've automated the nodelist creation and hatching -- this worked out to be the hardest part so far, because Synchronet BBS does not feature a file hatching program that can be automated via a script; so I patched "HatchIT" to have this feature. Currently, the TIC files don't have passwords because of a bug in Synchronet, but it is working at least :)
The network is running and sometimes people are writing something :)
I would say that the hardest part is to have people start writing to make the network interesting. Maybe some more advertisement could help, but I'm lacking the energy (not only for that) at the moment. That's also why I'm not posting ads for my BBS :)
Do you have an idea what your FTN should be about?
Regards, Anna
My advise. Don't. There's already 30+ dead networks and more popping up to become dead networks every now and again.
Maybe the reason you can find anything is cause nobody needs another network. -- End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
Twas Sunday, January 2nd when Nigel Reed said...
My advise. Don't. There's already 30+ dead networks and more
popping up to become dead networks every now and again.
Maybe the reason you can find anything is cause nobody needs
another network. -- End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
True, and I suppose if the network is dead, the zone numbers can be
reused? Iguess this is a weakeness here, which I why I suggested in
a previous message maybe by convention zones 4090 up are "private"
zones, used for networks that aren't public, ie test networks, or
networks between a few BBS's who will by convention only allow access
between themselves.
So even if they die, it doesn't matter as much. I have no intention
of creating a competing open network.
HobbyNet is not as active as I wish it would be. Daryl contributes
greatly, posting in the Dance and Ham areas. I am really promoting
Genealogy and the Hobby echo where people can post anything
hobby-related.
I added a Music file area where I am uploading sons I recorded on a
Lowrey Grand Marquis organ. Hopefully, visitors will download them
for their own enjoyment.
One thing I like about IP addressing, is that there is a "local" address, for example, 192.168, which can be used multiple times,
because each local network is separate.
Perhaps for zone numbers, a couple of numbers could be considered "local", that is, they are for zone numbers which will never be
"public", that is, it will be used only by those who agree to use it.
On 01-02-22 19:38, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed <=-
One thing I like about IP addressing, is that there is a "local"
address, for example, 192.168, which can be used multiple times,
because each local network is separate.
Perhaps for zone numbers, a couple of numbers could be considered
"local", that is, they are for zone numbers which will never be
"public", that is, it will be used only by those who agree to use it.
This MAY cause problems, but it would mean that people who want to play around, try their own net, they could use say, zone 4090 - 4095,
knowing that it is only used by other nets you won't connect to.
On 01-02-22 13:06, acn wrote to boraxman <=-
Am 01.01.22 schrieb boraxman@21:1/121 in FSX_GEN:
I've done this last year, when I started the WeedNet QWK<>FTN gateway,
so I'm the FTN hub for this network (zone number 420 *g*).
I started by creating the echolist file for all echos and connecting
the first other nodes (and points), a little later I learned how to
use makenl for a very small nodelist. I've automated the nodelist
creation and hatching -- this worked out to be the hardest part so
far, because Synchronet BBS does not feature a file hatching program
that can be automated via a script; so I patched "HatchIT" to have
this feature. Currently, the TIC files don't have passwords because of
a bug in Synchronet, but it is working at least :)
The network is running and sometimes people are writing something :)
I would say that the hardest part is to have people start writing to
make the network interesting. Maybe some more advertisement could
help, but I'm lacking the energy (not only for that) at the moment.
That's also why I'm not posting ads for my BBS :)
Do you have an idea what your FTN should be about?
On 01-02-22 21:03, Mike Dippel wrote to Nigel Reed <=-
HobbyNet is not as active as I wish it would be. Daryl contributes greatly, posting in the Dance and Ham areas. I am really promoting Genealogy and the Hobby echo where people can post anything
hobby-related.
I added a Music file area where I am uploading sons I recorded on a
Lowrey Grand Marquis organ. Hopefully, visitors will download them for their own enjoyment.
I started HobbyNet in the late 90's when it was networked on DOS
computers via modem.
On 01-02-22 19:48, boraxman wrote to acn <=-
There is a growing "smolnet" movement, based on the "smol internet",
light protocols like Gopher and Gemini. There are public access unices where people can login, message, chat, create their own communites.
Like the resurgence in BBSs a few years ago, there was a resurgence
here in the basic, old web. I think the BBS is still a better "lower power" option, as the Gemini protocol doesn't allow chat, and the
public access unices, while they do allow chat and private mail, don't have quite the user friendly interface that BBS's do.
As sysops we maybe need to have a consolidated effort to drive our Facebooking friends to FTN nets where you're not bombarded with ads and stuff like that. SycnTerm is a great program which runs on a number of operating systems and has a list of BBSs to call right out the gate,We have to develop a good user interface. Maybe we can have a RipTerm 1.54 (WHICH standard is avaliable pubilcy) For the mobile phones. Or have a nice android/ios message reader for bbses. (Might work for Synchronet, WINS and Mystic perhaps)
and I'm sure Deuce would entertain adding more as long as they were reliable and long-lived so far.
On 01-02-22 21:02, Utopian Galt wrote to Nigel Reed <=-
We have to develop a good user interface. Maybe we can have a RipTerm
1.54 (WHICH standard is avaliable pubilcy) For the mobile phones. Or
have a nice android/ios message reader for bbses. (Might work for Synchronet, WINS and Mystic perhaps)
I've done this last year, when I started the WeedNet QWK<>FTN gateway, ac>> so I'm the FTN hub for this network (zone number 420 *g*).
Haha a very appropriate zone number. ;)
I chose 432 for VKRadio, as that's the 70cm SSB segment, and my hub's address of 432:1/100 looks liknds the SSB calling frequency of 432.100 (MHz). :)
I also host the official QWK - FTN gayeway for a couple of other FTNs,
where I define the addressing and maintain the nodelists on the FTN side:
DeveloperNet - Zone 256 (the number of values a byte can hold). Additionally, I use net 8 (for 8 bit) for added effect. ;)
MusicalNet - Zone 440 (A above Middle C - "A4" - also a common tuning fork frequency). :)
I had a similar issue with Mystic, when I setup my FTN, and my solution was to write a script that builds a TIC file that comes from a fake node
numbber within the FTN, which I have added to my file echo distribution lists. The script makes use of a public domain CRC generator, which I include (with attribution)
Yeah, getting activity is one of the harder parts. My network has two purposes. Firstly, it's a platform to discuss anything related to radio communications. Not just ham radio and CB - the old staples, but I'm open to LoRa, wifi hacking, IoT, BlurTooth and anything else that makes use of electromagnetic radiation for communications. Even optical laser/LED comms is on topic. :)
Do you have an idea what your FTN should be about?
Probably an important question. ;)
Do you have an idea what your FTN should be about?
So for fun, and maybe, maybe to bring this about, I looked into whether it is feasible to set this up. We might just "hang out" on the one BBS, without and FTN, but just in case, I wanted to see if it could be expanded
[...] I think the BBS is still a better "lower power" option, as
the Gemini protocol doesn't allow chat, and the public access unices, while they do allow chat and private mail, don't have quite the user friendly interface that BBS's do.
HobbyNet is not as active as I wish it would be. Daryl contributes >greatly, posting in the Dance and Ham areas. I am really promoting > Genealogy and the Hobby echo where people can post anything > hobby-related. > > I added a Music file area where I am uploading sons I recorded on a > Lowrey Grand Marquis organ. Hopefully, visitors will download them > for their own enjoyment.
I think it's a good, and unique network. The problem is that there just isn't the caller base any more. People are used to a world of point, click, and scroll these days and I don't think cellphones are best for bulletin boards. I have a bad enough time when I have to ssh into a Linux box using my cellphone.
As sysops we maybe need to have a consolidated effort to drive our Facebooking friends to FTN nets where you're not bombarded with ads and stuff like that. SycnTerm is a great program which runs on a number of operating systems and has a list of BBSs to call right out the gate, and I'm sure Deuce would entertain adding more as long as they were reliable and long-lived so far. -- End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
There's definitely merit in that idea. And the 6 zones should be plenty.
I can't see anyone or any group needing more than that. Afterall, Fidonet at its peak ran on 6 zones.
Yeah, I think there is room here for BBSs to fit in. The user interface is efficient, and there's actually a wider choice of UIs on BBSs than on web forums! (I don't count "skins" as different UIs, they're still web). A modern BBS can offer telnet/SSH, HTTP(S), email and NNTP for messaging, along with offline mail (QWK(E) at a minimum). And you can even use FTN itself, if you setup a point. Best I've seen a web forum manage is HTTPS/NNTP/email (FUDForum can do this).
And BBSs also offer file repositories and distribution, again via multiple protocols - X/Y/Zmodem over telnet/SSH, FTP, HTTP(S), FTN, to name a few. BBSs these days are versatile platforms, and deserve a place in the modern online world.
... There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole government === MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
I think, these services could complement each other. Synchronet eg. does have a Gopher client, so one could access Gopher holes from inside the BBS :) Maybe someone could also implement a Gemini client :)
Regards, Anna
On 01-03-22 15:57, acn wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've done this last year, when I started the WeedNet QWK<>FTN gateway,
so I'm the FTN hub for this network (zone number 420 *g*).
Haha a very appropriate zone number. ;)
Thank you :)
I had a similar issue with Mystic, when I setup my FTN, and my solution was to write a script that builds a TIC file that comes from a fake node numbber within the FTN, which I have added to my file echo distribution lists. The script makes use of a public domain CRC generator, which I include (with attribution)
That would have also been an option, but thanks to Synchronet being
open source, I could just patch in my "batch operation mode" :)
Nice. I might have a look at it some time - but the 'next big thing'
for my BBS is the update to the lateste stable version of Synchronet, which arrived yesterday :)
As it is my first Synchronet update, I guess it will take a while to
make everything work again as before *g*
And I have to adapt my HatchIT patch to the new version, as it hasn't
been included in the new version (and not even commented on).
On 01-03-22 19:07, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Twas Tuesday, January 4th when Vk3jed said...
There's definitely merit in that idea. And the 6 zones should be plenty.
I can't see anyone or any group needing more than that. Afterall, Fidonet at its peak ran on 6 zones.
It is perhaps a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, it's not
like there are 10 new zones appearing everyday and a conflict is
likely.
On 01-03-22 19:19, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I believe that often the solutions to problems people have often exist, they just don't want to see it, or want something else.
Facebook struggles greatly on my laptop, as does any web based social media. The BBS/Smolnet is FAST. Not just in interface, but in getting
to what you want to see. Ever seen how much time people spend going through their Social Media Feed?
I do think that having web, multiple interfaces to the same
communications system is the way to go, but only limited altneratives.
A good mobile client is key.
Facebook struggles greatly on my laptop, as does any web based social media. T
BBS/Smolnet is FAST. Not just in interface, but in getting
to what you want to see. Ever seen how much time people spend going through
their Social Media Feed?
Facebook is one of the better ones. Web forums are often on the other side of the
world from me. Those 200 mS RTTs _really_ add up! FB serves a lot of its content
from a more local source through its global CDN, which reduces the effect of the
multiple RTTs significantly. :)
People are surprisingly boring and predictable - there's already a
number of zone clashes.
Facebook is one of the better ones. Web forums are often on the other side of the world from me. Those 200 mS RTTs _really_ add up! FB
serves a lot of its content from a more local source through its global CDN, which reduces the effect of the multiple RTTs significantly. :)
But Facebook had huge issues. Its web scripting is slow and
heavyweight, and its mobile app was designed by someone on crack - the latest bersion of the mobile app introduced some _really_ weird shit
that doesn't make sense. And they can't even provide a simply "view unread notifications" feature.
Dunno... I am not a fan of web forums, but most web forums nowadays are much, much
less computer intensive that anything Facebook delivers.
I don't use such a pile of junk, but a relative who lives in my house does, and it is
an AJAX orgy of CPU and bandwidth raping.
I live in a rural area and I have > 200 ms roundtrips by default. Sure, those apply to
everything (Facebook or not) but I think latency is more noticeable when dealing with
interactive content, such as AJAX orgies in which CDNs take turns trying to forcefully
get your computer pregnant.
The bottom line is: screw web services and use BBS.
--
The Simpsons lampooned this in an episode where Homer finds his long
lost half brother, Herb, and Herb decides that the "average American" should design a car. He gets a monstrisity, a car called "The Homer".
The Simpsons lampooned this in an episode where Homer finds his long
lost half brother, Herb, and Herb decides that the "average American" should design a car. He gets a monstrisity, a car called "The Homer"
I remember that episode!
I never checked the credits, but I'm certain that Herb
was voiced by Danny Devito. Can anyone confirm?
It's weird. The memory of that episode was immediately followed by that name. Maybe I had watched 'Twins' on the same night?
Yes, it was Danny DeVito!
On 01-04-22 12:20, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Dunno... I am not a fan of web forums, but most web forums nowadays are much, much
less computer intensive that anything Facebook delivers.
The bottom line is: screw web services and use BBS.
On 01-05-22 14:00, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed <=-
People are surprisingly boring and predictable - there's already a
number of zone clashes.
The irony of being surprised by peoples predictability...
On 01-05-22 14:11, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed <=-
On my laptop, which is "only" 1.6GHz with 2G of RAM, FB is pretty much unusable. You can access the mobile version on the desktop, by
visiting m.facebook.com, and that is much, much faster, albeit a slog
to find things in.
I do not have a phone capable of running the mobile app, and I don't
want to be another person that cements the dominance of FB.
I'm at the stage where I can't be bothered with crap, and I am deleting
my account. Good riddance. That site, that whole "Social Media"
paradigm is a blight on humanity, prioritising metrics like
"engagement" and commoditising people while sacrificing real human interaction.
https://www.nydailynews.com/autos/not-race-team-builds-homer-simpson-car-500-ar
ticle-1.1393003
On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 19:51:46 -0700
"boraxman" <boraxman@21:1/121> wrote:
Twas Sunday, January 2nd when Nigel Reed said...
NR> My advise. Don't. There's already 30+ dead networks and more
NR> popping up to become dead networks every now and again.
NR>
NR>
NR> Maybe the reason you can find anything is cause nobody needs
NR> another network. -- End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX telnet
NR> endofthelinebbs.com 23
True, and I suppose if the network is dead, the zone numbers can be
reused? Iguess this is a weakeness here, which I why I suggested in
a previous message maybe by convention zones 4090 up are "private"
zones, used for networks that aren't public, ie test networks, or
networks between a few BBS's who will by convention only allow access
between themselves.
So even if they die, it doesn't matter as much. I have no intention
of creating a competing open network.
You can use whatever zone you want as long as you don't try and link to someone already using it. Zone 9 is used by 2 network so it's not like
people haven't done it before. As others have mentioned, there's a spreadsheet out there that someone put together with all the zones that showed up in their logs. I suggest tracking it down and using that to determine which zone to use.
| Sysop: | CyberNix |
|---|---|
| Location: | London, UK |
| Users: | 18 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 137:46:10 |
| Calls: | 819 |
| Files: | 3,552 |
| Messages: | 558,405 |